Why are TV soundbars so expensive?!

DullGreyGuy

RumRat said:

Samsung have just introduce Eclipse sound into their new TV's and soundbars to rival Dolby Atmos. Not experienced it yet, but will at the first opportunity.
The point is if you enjoy cutting edge tech then you will buy it, for everyone else there are cheap speakers and soundbars.
It's not important to everyone and neither should it be, however. once experienced I doubt there is any going back.

https://news.samsung.com/uk/samsung-brings-eclipsa-audio-3d-technology-developed-with-google-to-2025-tvs-and-soundbars
https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/01/introducing-eclipsa-audio-immersive-audio-for-everyone.html

Hadn't heard of it but found the above press releases

Only supporting contents is on YouTube at the moment, sounds like a budget way for creators to get surround sound etc. No word of any studios adopting it though as an alternative to DD or DTS. 

RumRat

DullGreyGuy said:

RumRat said:

Samsung have just introduce Eclipse sound into their new TV's and soundbars to rival Dolby Atmos. Not experienced it yet, but will at the first opportunity.
The point is if you enjoy cutting edge tech then you will buy it, for everyone else there are cheap speakers and soundbars.
It's not important to everyone and neither should it be, however. once experienced I doubt there is any going back.

https://news.samsung.com/uk/samsung-brings-eclipsa-audio-3d-technology-developed-with-google-to-2025-tvs-and-soundbars
https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/01/introducing-eclipsa-audio-immersive-audio-for-everyone.html

Hadn't heard of it but found the above press releases

Only supporting contents is on YouTube at the moment, sounds like a budget way for creators to get surround sound etc. No word of any studios adopting it though as an alternative to DD or DTS. 

Yep, that's how I read it. It's a good idea as sound from YouTube needs something different. The report I read said something about Samsung may continue to develop it for the future use on different platforms.
I'll reserve judgement until I sample it....It does look like it might mean an upgrade(?) of some description unless they can do anything via a software update. 

Grumpy_chap

DullGreyGuy said:

Speakers yes, AVR no.

Dolby Digital didnt exist 50 years ago, since 1991 when it was created we've had DD then DD+ then DD-TrueHD and now DD-Atmos, there are similar stories with DTS getting to DTS-X. Whilst I wouldn't necessarily run out and replace my system as soon as a new format comes out they have represented significant improvements, Atmos and DTS:X in particular moving to object modelling and a much better implementation of height. 

Additionally, the original home systems you used to have to get a tape measure out and manually input the distance of each speaker from the seating position and then manually adjust the volume for each speaker. Now you use an omni directional mic where you are going to sit and the AVR will work out the distances, the positions, volumes etc and adjust for both the fact one speaker is really close but its mirror side one is much further away, now there is object sound the system will also work out where it the speakers are to know where the sound should be coming from to get the effect of the helicopter flying over you... you no longer just miss out if you have no ceiling speakers.

AVRs typically do more than just decode the sound and amplify it, they're also switches so you can go from watching Sky on your TV to watching Netflix on a Projector or listening to a CD. How we transmit video has equally changed from composite to s.video to component to HDMI 1.0 and now HDMI 2.1. Along with that we've had copy protection 

Maybe you are happy with your Dolby Stereo system (which actually wasnt necessarily just stereo) and having to do something else to switch your source and output. Personally would say you are missing out. 

In theory you could split the AVR in half and buy a processor that does all the wizzy electronic stuff that will age over time and separately power amps that you can keep for 50 years but you may have trouble when you go from your original 5.1 to 5.1.2 as you won't have amps for ceiling speakers. The only problem is that processors are typically more expensive than AVRs and then you have to add on the cost of amps on top. In principle you could by an AVR with pre-outs and use them to your amps but you are paying for an amp section in the AVR that you arent using. 

The number of people with a home cinema set up and tuned acoustics that can take full advantage of the sound system must be a small proportion.

The soundbars seem to be a very convenient upsell or people that simply cannot take advantage but want to feel better about what they have.  Whether the true audio is any better than simply the TV built in sound in the living room with multi-functional furniture, the toy train set clattering around, a furby chirping in every so often, and half the sound escaping up the stairwell and echoing back down over the sound of the dishwasher is yet to be evidenced.

DullGreyGuy

Grumpy_chap said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Speakers yes, AVR no.

Dolby Digital didnt exist 50 years ago, since 1991 when it was created we've had DD then DD+ then DD-TrueHD and now DD-Atmos, there are similar stories with DTS getting to DTS-X. Whilst I wouldn't necessarily run out and replace my system as soon as a new format comes out they have represented significant improvements, Atmos and DTS:X in particular moving to object modelling and a much better implementation of height. 

Additionally, the original home systems you used to have to get a tape measure out and manually input the distance of each speaker from the seating position and then manually adjust the volume for each speaker. Now you use an omni directional mic where you are going to sit and the AVR will work out the distances, the positions, volumes etc and adjust for both the fact one speaker is really close but its mirror side one is much further away, now there is object sound the system will also work out where it the speakers are to know where the sound should be coming from to get the effect of the helicopter flying over you... you no longer just miss out if you have no ceiling speakers.

AVRs typically do more than just decode the sound and amplify it, they're also switches so you can go from watching Sky on your TV to watching Netflix on a Projector or listening to a CD. How we transmit video has equally changed from composite to s.video to component to HDMI 1.0 and now HDMI 2.1. Along with that we've had copy protection 

Maybe you are happy with your Dolby Stereo system (which actually wasnt necessarily just stereo) and having to do something else to switch your source and output. Personally would say you are missing out. 

In theory you could split the AVR in half and buy a processor that does all the wizzy electronic stuff that will age over time and separately power amps that you can keep for 50 years but you may have trouble when you go from your original 5.1 to 5.1.2 as you won't have amps for ceiling speakers. The only problem is that processors are typically more expensive than AVRs and then you have to add on the cost of amps on top. In principle you could by an AVR with pre-outs and use them to your amps but you are paying for an amp section in the AVR that you arent using. 

The number of people with a home cinema set up and tuned acoustics that can take full advantage of the sound system must be a small proportion.

The soundbars seem to be a very convenient upsell or people that simply cannot take advantage but want to feel better about what they have.  Whether the true audio is any better than simply the TV built in sound in the living room with multi-functional furniture, the toy train set clattering around, a furby chirping in every so often, and half the sound escaping up the stairwell and echoing back down over the sound of the dishwasher is yet to be evidenced.

Wasnt criticising sounds bars, just saying a home cinema system is unlikely to be a once in 50 year purchase. 

I've no idea how many home cinema systems there are out there. Given the number of different brands there are making them and Denon alone has 15 different current models for sale it feels like there are probably more than you think. Add to that all much cheaper systems via Amazon etc. 

Grumpy_chap

DullGreyGuy said:

I've no idea how many home cinema systems there are out there. it feels like there are probably more than you think. 

How many achieve the full potential?
How many are just upsell to make the purchaser feel better / special and make no real difference above the train set, furby, washing machine, echo from upstairs?

DullGreyGuy

Grumpy_chap said:

DullGreyGuy said:

I've no idea how many home cinema systems there are out there. it feels like there are probably more than you think. 

How many achieve the full potential?
How many are just upsell to make the purchaser feel better / special and make no real difference above the train set, furby, washing machine, echo from upstairs?

First question is hard to answer as part of their potential is to be able to deal with imperfect rooms and speaker placement. So build a dedicated room with a no furby rule with perfect placement it will sound the best but is its full potential if you arent using the one of its key functions?


Assuming the system is working and we are comparing it to the built in speakers of a standard TV then 100%. You may not get the best, certain quiet horror films may not work (not sure why train set and furby are going on during 18/R rated films) but even with background noises you can appreciate being enveloped in louder scenes of a movie rather than thin sounds from the tv in front of you. 

Grumpy_chap

Yes, I would be comparing with the built in speakers of the TV which, quite possibly, are less good in a modern LED screen TV than we once had with the CRT where there was more space to fit speakers that gave more depth plus the speakers on the latest flat TVs are in the back so providing the purest sound to the wall  

It won't be horror films in our house as that's the time to hide behind a furby

As you may have guessed, I've never had a soundbar.  Maybe I should try one?

DullGreyGuy

Grumpy_chap said:

Yes, I would be comparing with the built in speakers of the TV which, quite possibly, are less good in a modern LED screen TV than we once had with the CRT where there was more space to fit speakers that gave more depth plus the speakers on the latest flat TVs are in the back so providing the purest sound to the wall  

It won't be horror films in our house as that's the time to hide behind a furby

As you may have guessed, I've never had a soundbar.  Maybe I should try one?

Yes, it's a mainly of how thin the screen is but also how a TV is now 99% screen whereas the family TV as child was a whole cabinet so had several inches of case below the screen in which to site the speakers.

I've never had a soundbar either... bought a £100 home cinema system at 18 and never not had one since. Have had amplifiers die so had to go back to TV sound for a while (and not being able to use projector) and have friends that have them. 

Personally, were I to get one, I'd go for a mid range one as the reflecting sound to hope it sounds like its from behind you doesn't work brilliantly in my experience. Before we bought our home and so couldn't cut holes in the ceiling I tried some speakers designed to bounce off the ceiling... ok but not close to the effect of actually having speakers in the ceiling. 

FarmerHorse

Grumpy_chap said:

Yes, I would be comparing with the built in speakers of the TV which, quite possibly, are less good in a modern LED screen TV than we once had with the CRT where there was more space to fit speakers that gave more depth plus the speakers on the latest flat TVs are in the back so providing the purest sound to the wall  

It won't be horror films in our house as that's the time to hide behind a furby

As you may have guessed, I've never had a soundbar.  Maybe I should try one?

Living up to your name I see 😊

Modern tv sound isn’t necessarily awful. The Sony Bravia range uses the screen to act as a sound transponder along with the built-in speakers and is quite effective. It sounds pretty good and most tv programmes are more than fine. For those that work better with higher quality sound - drama, sport, music mainly - the optical feed from tv to streamer and then out through a half-decent stereo is more than good enough and better than any sound bar I’ve owned. Multi-channel audio has never really appealed so the choice has generally been sound bar or hifi to improve on standard tv sound. 

Grumpy_chap

FarmerHorse said:

Living up to your name I see 😊

Well, I am definitely doing so now.
Inspired by this thread, I thought I might give a soundbar a go.  The exact opposite of MSE 

So, the Daily Telegraph recommends this model:
https://uk.jbl.com/BAR-2-0-ALL-IN-ONE-MK2.html

It's just under £80 on Amazon.
But then I looked and I need another plug socket, so that will mean another multi-way adaptor. 
Plus the height of the soundbar will not sit on the front of the TV unit without obscuring the bottom of the TV screen, so I either have to put up with that or put the TV stand on some kind of extenders.
Plus it needs another remote control to lose.

It actually seems like rather a lot of bother, so I am going to revert to MSE type and challenge the purchase versus the Mantras ( https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/money-mantras/ ) and it seems it fails at "do I need it?"