UK Royal Mail denial of insurance claim due to insufficient packaging

dan35

Hi all,

Has anybody here got any experience or advice with the situation described in this thread title?

I sent an item I sold on ebay via royal mail. It arrived damaged. I made a claim based on the insurance I bought, providing them with all of the evidence they asked for in the process.

They emailed me back saying they have denied the claim based on 'insufficient use of packaging'.

I am a very diligent ebayer. I read the guidelines (I can't post links, but it is on parcelforce's website under the following heading, just in case anybody needs to see it /help-and-advice/sending/packaging-guidelines) and am certain I fulfilled the requirements. I just reread the guidelines and am sure that my packaging meets their criteria.

The item I sent was a camera lens insured for £2500, so I cannot just leave it.

Is it simply the case that I research the process for taking the royal mail to the small claims court? Has anybody any experience with any of this? Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks very much in advance for any help. I bought expensive camera equipment when I had a cash windfall, but I am not rich, and intended using the money from the sale of my camera equipment to pay for professional training, so just losing out on this will be a big blow for me.

Thanks

MattMattMattUK

dan35 said:

Hi all,

Has anybody here got any experience or advice with the situation described in this thread title?

I sent an item I sold on ebay via royal mail. It arrived damaged. I made a claim based on the insurance I bought, providing them with all of the evidence they asked for in the process.

They emailed me back saying they have denied the claim based on 'insufficient use of packaging'.

I am a very diligent ebayer. I read the guidelines (I can't post links, but it is on parcelforce's website under the following heading, just in case anybody needs to see it /help-and-advice/sending/packaging-guidelines) and am certain I fulfilled the requirements. I just reread the guidelines and am sure that my packaging meets their criteria.

The item I sent was a camera lens insured for £2500, so I cannot just leave it.

Is it simply the case that I research the process for taking the royal mail to the small claims court? Has anybody any experience with any of this? Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks very much in advance for any help. I bought expensive camera equipment when I had a cash windfall, but I am not rich, and intended using the money from the sale of my camera equipment to pay for professional training, so just losing out on this will be a big blow for me.

Thanks

It is very difficult to take them to court for this kind of thing.

What packaging did you use and how was the lens damaged?

molerat

If the box was not crushed / pierced any damage must have been down to insufficient packaging.  Was it double boxed ?

swingaloo

Did the buyer send you photos of the damaged packaging as Royal Mail usually want to see that. Do you have a photo of the packaging before it was posted?

RFW

You'll need a lot of evidence to take it to court. I'd try exhausting all my options with Royal Mail first.

What service did you use and what insurance did you have?

How was the item damaged? Did the receiver accept it or was it sent back to you? Where is the damaged item now?
You'd then need full details of how it was packaged, value and a statement from the person you sold it to.

If it was a £2,500 item and I was sending it using Royal Mail I'd make sure it could be dropped from a 20 storey building and come out unscathed, anything less than that would be concerning.

Olinda99

Since I assume you're claiming on insurance is this something that the insurance ombudsman covers or is it not 'real insurance' if I can use that expression?

DullGreyGuy

Olinda99 said:

Since I assume you're claiming on insurance is this something that the insurance ombudsman covers or is it not 'real insurance' if I can use that expression?

Its not insurance and so cannot go to the Financial Ombudsman, its the selected limit of financial compensation selected as part of the service.

To the OP - it will come down to what evidence you have of how it was packed before it was sent, what evidence you have of how it was when received and then of the damage. You will need the buyer to be supportive of the process rather than saying it's your problem as the seller. 

Have you had the broken item back? Double checked its really yours? You wouldn't be the first one who's sent something to someone wanting to replace their own broken item and they then just damage the packaging and say their broken one is the one you sold them. 

Surelyallnameshavebeentakenbynow

What I can share from recent experience is that Royal Mail (and perhaps by implication, Parcel Force) has changed its spots on the whole compensation for eBay deliveries thing. A couple of years ago they paid me the full £250 of compensation) for an antique item that arrived damaged (but repairable), in France. A few weeks ago they called me out - harshly in my view - for alleged 'shoddy packaging' on a claim for less than £30. And I also have an eBay profile full of glittering praise around how well items are packaged. I'd expect any case would be hard to win, but do you have legal advice with your home insurance, or similar?

savergrant

Did the buyer sign for the parcel personally? Did they note any damage to the exterior before signing? Was the person who signed for the parcel aware it contained a valuable and fragile item?
If the recipient has accepted the parcel as undamaged and not tampered with it will be hard to prove royal mail damaged the item inside the parcel.

dan35

Hi swingaloo I do have a photo of the box before posting. I still have the box. It doesn't look "crushed". They asked for a photo of the exterior of the box, which I sent them as part of the appeal process. 

The royal mail provided a picture as it was handed to the buyer but it is evidence of delivery not condition of the box. 

It is possible that the buyer damaged the item and then claimed it arrived damaged. But at the moment the royal mail haven't rejected my claim based on it arriving safely, they have rejected my claim on the basis the packaging was not sufficient, even though I went beyond the advice on their website (which I did read and follow, given the expense of the item).

MattMAttMattUK "It is very difficult to take them to court for this kind of thing."
 

Do you actually have experience of doing this as a basis for your advice? I couldn't find any forum threads but if you actually have any please pass them on to me. 

You asked I used a large rigid cardboard box with internal large bubblewrap and large polystyrene peanuts (I think they are called). I went beyond the advice on their site. Now they are simply refusing to pay out.

molerat thanks for your reply but you are simply wrong. As per my post, I followed their packaging advice to the letter. 

Not only that, I am not a shop, but I am an experienced ebay seller and didn't want the item damaged so I packaged it accordingly. I am not an idiot. Please consider whether what you post is useful before doing so, thanks.

 

So I wonder, is it simply a matter of going to the small claims court? Or does anybody know of any other procedure that I need to follow? Is there some kind of industry scheme or regulator or whatever it might be? naturally I thought this forum *might* have people with decent information on this sort of thing.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, please I am looking for useful advice. If anybody can direct me as to where I can get that advice that itself would be hugely appreciated. All the best!

martindow

Do you know what the damage consisted of?  I imagine that camera lenses can be fairly delicate - could shaking or dropping of the parcel en route cause damage that might not be visible or is something obviously broken?

If the outside box is not damaged then I can see RM's point.  Maybe it's an item that is so fragile that even with lots of packaging it was always going to be prone to arriving damaged.

To get any further you need to cooperate with your buyer to provide detailed photos of the item and packaging and full details of what the damage is to the lens.  Without this I am inclined to agree with Matt that any claim is likely to fail and for this value RM is likely to defend a case.  Is it RM by the way - above you quote a link to ParcelForce.