Stoptap -whose responsibility

danco

I live in a block of flats built in 2019, and I moved in early 2020.

I recently decided I would like a water softener installed, and of course this involves turning off the mains water. There are several stoptaps, but the one that needs to be turned off is where the water supply enters my flat, BEFORE the water meter. Unfortunately  when this tap is turned off there is still a flow of water - not great but enough that the installer felt he could not go ahead with the work.

If the stoptap needs to be replaced, whose responsibility is it? The management of our block claim that it falls within my domain and responsibility. My feeling is that a properly installed stoptap would not have failed in this way, and it is therefore an inherent fault that is their responsibility. It is, of course, very rare that this tap ever needs to turn the water off.

What do people think?

I am going to check if other residents have run into this issue, but have not had time yet.

In addition to the question of responsibility, there is the practical matter. In order to replace the stoptap, or just to install the main valve for the water softener, the water needs to be off earlier than that stoptap. It seems that it will have to be turned off for the whole building (surprisingly it can't be turned off for individual floors). They would be more inclined to do this if it is their responsibility, particularly if others have this problem.

AskAsk

put a stop !!!!!! in your property after the water meter.  the management company are responsible for the stop !!!!!! on communal property but it won't be easy to get them to replace it!

anselld

Get a better plumber.  Fixing things with “a small flow” is not unusual and even in a flat can be safely achieved with a wet vac to hand.  Only need a few seconds to cut a pipe and get a fitting on, preferably as mentioned above an internal stopc*ck.

eddddy

danco said:

The management of our block claim that it falls within my domain and responsibility. My feeling is that a properly installed stoptap would not have failed in this way, and it is therefore an inherent fault that is their responsibility.

Unfortunately, the bit about the 'inherent fault' isn't relevant.  You bought the flat in 2020 with all it's 'inherent faults'.

Those 'inherent faults' are your responsibility now.

(If the flat was a newbuild, it might have had a 2 year warranty that would cover those kind of faults, but that warranty would have expired now.)

danco said:

There are several stoptaps, but the one that needs to be turned off is where the water supply enters my flat, BEFORE the water meter. 

Being before the water meter doesn't mean the stop tap isn't your responsibility.

Generally with flats, the flat owner (leaseholder) is responsible for any plumbing and pipework that exclusively serves their flat.

It sounds like the stop tap (and the lengths of pipe it is connected to) is exclusively for the water supply to your flat - so it's likely to be your responsibility.

But you can check the wording of your lease to make sure.

Section62

anselld said:

Get a better plumber.  Fixing things with “a small flow” is not unusual and even in a flat can be safely achieved with a wet vac to hand.  Only need a few seconds to cut a pipe and get a fitting on, preferably as mentioned above an internal stopc*ck.

Or at a push, freeze the pipe.  The 'small flow' should be reduced to nothing if everything in the flat is turned off, so there shouldn't be a problem getting the ice plug to form.

Whichever method used, any competent plumber ought to be able to deal with this as a routine part of the job.

danco

The flat was a new build. So it would have been covered when bought, but was not noticed at the time. There is, of course, a longer warranty but I believe that only holds for major problems, which this certainly isn't.

Thanks for the suggestions. I can ask the installer if he can follow either of the two suggestions made. Of course he wasn't expecting that kind of problem, so there was no reason for him to have equipment to deal with it. Now he knows, that might be the best solution. Though I am more inclined to try to organise turning off the supply in the building for the short time required to do the work.

Section62

danco said:

The flat was a new build. So it would have been covered when bought, but was not noticed at the time. There is, of course, a longer warranty but I believe that only holds for major problems, which this certainly isn't.

Thanks for the suggestions. I can ask the installer if he can follow either of the two suggestions made. Of course he wasn't expecting that kind of problem, so there was no reason for him to have equipment to deal with it. Now he knows, that might be the best solution. Though I am more inclined to try to organise turning off the supply in the building for the short time required to do the work.

Would be surprised if a professional plumber didn't have a freezing kit somewhere on the van... you don't want to use them, but there are situations where having one buys you time to avoid disaster.

silvercar

Once you have the water softener fitted, it has an in and an out water pipe as well as a bypass pipe. All 3 will have taps on them. Normally when using the softener you have the in and out pipe on and the bypass off. On the rare occasions you don’t want softened water you turn the bypass on and the in and out pipes off. If you turn all 3 off you are effectively turning your water off without needing to instal a new stopcock.

danco

silvercar said:

Once you have the water softener fitted, it has an in and an out water pipe as well as a bypass pipe. All 3 will have taps on them. Normally when using the softener you have the in and out pipe on and the bypass off. On the rare occasions you don’t want softened water you turn the bypass on and the in and out pipes off. If you turn all 3 off you are effectively turning your water off without needing to instal a new stopcock.

That's what I reckon. Real question is whether the solutions suggested for getting the work done are the best, or whether turning off water to the whole block is simpler. It would only be for a few minutes, I suppose.

GDB2222

Section62 said:

danco said:

The flat was a new build. So it would have been covered when bought, but was not noticed at the time. There is, of course, a longer warranty but I believe that only holds for major problems, which this certainly isn't.

Thanks for the suggestions. I can ask the installer if he can follow either of the two suggestions made. Of course he wasn't expecting that kind of problem, so there was no reason for him to have equipment to deal with it. Now he knows, that might be the best solution. Though I am more inclined to try to organise turning off the supply in the building for the short time required to do the work.

Would be surprised if a professional plumber didn't have a freezing kit somewhere on the van... you don't want to use them, but there are situations where having one buys you time to avoid disaster.

Pipe freezing is a bit of a risk,so I wouldn’t let the plumber do it unless I had checked his insurance beforehand. You could flood several floors below you before someone closes the main valve to the building.

Much less of a risk is one of these:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/aladdin-easyfit-isolator-starter-pack-15mm/36008

It is easy to fit, without turning off the water. 

danco

Of course, by far the best technical solution is just to turn the water off before the problematic stoptap. Trouble is that this would require management approval, and would cause some disruption to other residents in the block, though hopefully just a few minutes. I think my best course is to pursue that further. But it is useful to be told of other options. Maybe just a wet vac would do, though I suspect the flow of water with the tap off is too much for that to work well.

As @silvercar said, the wter softener fitting can effectively act as a stoptap. It's not quite identical to the faulty one, as it would be fitted after the water meter whereas the faulty stoptap is before the meter. But the likelihood of that cuainsg a problem seems very small, I think it could only happen if the meter developed a fault or needed changing.