In a panic please help. AET self employed carer transitional protection ending

poppy12345

8dayweek said:

HillStreetBlues said:

NedS said:

Yes, unfortunately this is correct.

This is about entitlement to Transitional Protection. If there were earnings above the AET in the first assessment period (which may be implied by the partner being gainfully self employed), then transitional protection will end where earnings drop below the threshold for 3 consecutive assessment periods.

If transitional protection ends, the claim will also close where the claimant(s) have more than £16k in savings as there is no longer an entitlement to UC.

If the OP's partner is gainfully self employed and subject to minimum income floor or the start-up period then would they be classed as earning above the AET whatever their ernings?

Sorry I’m wording that really badly. 

Start Up Period - No, same would apply. Earnings would need to remain above AET (or not drop below AET for more than 3x AP’s) to retain TP.

MIF - No, same would apply. MIF would be used if Earnings are below this amount, but only actual Earnings (not assumed / notional Earnings) would count for purposes for whether you are consistently earning above AET to retain TP. 

This wouldn't apply if their earnings were below the AET in their first assessment period, is that correct or not?

TimeLord1

kazzyb123 said:

@TimeLord1 please see extra info is this still really right. Self employed people have no control over when they are paid and some months there are more expenses.
Also because I have PIP enhanced on both elements and ESA support group there is no need for him to show he is gainfully self employed

When it comes to claiming universal Credit 

• For couples, the combined AET is £1,437 per calendar month with 29hrs per week or 116 hrs per month 

8dayweek

poppy12345 said:

8dayweek said:

HillStreetBlues said:

NedS said:

Yes, unfortunately this is correct.

This is about entitlement to Transitional Protection. If there were earnings above the AET in the first assessment period (which may be implied by the partner being gainfully self employed), then transitional protection will end where earnings drop below the threshold for 3 consecutive assessment periods.

If transitional protection ends, the claim will also close where the claimant(s) have more than £16k in savings as there is no longer an entitlement to UC.

If the OP's partner is gainfully self employed and subject to minimum income floor or the start-up period then would they be classed as earning above the AET whatever their ernings?

Sorry I’m wording that really badly. 

Start Up Period - No, same would apply. Earnings would need to remain above AET (or not drop below AET for more than 3x AP’s) to retain TP.

MIF - No, same would apply. MIF would be used if Earnings are below this amount, but only actual Earnings (not assumed / notional Earnings) would count for purposes for whether you are consistently earning above AET to retain TP. 

This wouldn't apply if their earnings were below the AET in their first assessment period, is that correct or not?

Yes I believe you’re correct there - BUT I’m not certain you’d qualify for TP in that instance either, because I think that would be considered a significant change of circumstances between prior WTC claim and migration to UC. 

WTC has a version of the MIF, but also had other rules which meant other stuff offset it etc. for the income side of things. 

Also, often people forget what they had told WTC in regards to Work etc.

For example the pension age people who are still working (and thus being migrated to UC, not Pension Credit) and have clearly been renewing WTC year in, year out saying “yes I’m still working on average 16hrs per week…” then sitting down in the Jobcentre and saying “Oh no, I retired at least 4 years ago, I done my last job a few months after my 66th birthday…!”

kazzyb123

thanks everyone, looks like it stops then, shame he can’t control when he has expenses and when people pay him!
He has worked enough hours per month but self employed income just doesn’t fit the system, he can wait months to be paid for something and have lots of big expenses all together which is what happened.

NedS

HillStreetBlues said:

NedS said:

Yes, unfortunately this is correct.

This is about entitlement to Transitional Protection. If there were earnings above the AET in the first assessment period (which may be implied by the partner being gainfully self employed), then transitional protection will end where earnings drop below the threshold for 3 consecutive assessment periods.

If transitional protection ends, the claim will also close where the claimant(s) have more than £16k in savings as there is no longer an entitlement to UC.

If the OP's partner is gainfully self employed and subject to minimum income floor or the start-up period then would they be classed as earning above the AET whatever their ernings?

For the purposes of determining ongoing entitlement to transitional protection, where someone has been found to be gainfully self employed, the higher of their earnings or the MIF will be used as their earnings for the purpose of determining if their earnings are above the AET or not, even within the startup period.

For the purposes of 'earnings falling below the AET for 3 consecutive assessment periods', it is the couple AET rate that applies as it is a couple claim to which said transitional protection applies, even though only one member of the couple may be working.

kazzyb123

@8dayweek
I have seen something that says there must be a significant change (the drop in earnings for 3 months) but this must result in a change of conditionality for transitional protection to be lost, have you heard of this? This would mean having to move groups which my partner can’t, he is in the “no work related activity group” because of the carer element.
This was from 2022 though on rightsnet so could be totally different now.
so confusing

kazzyb123

NedS said:

HillStreetBlues said:

NedS said:

Yes, unfortunately this is correct.

This is about entitlement to Transitional Protection. If there were earnings above the AET in the first assessment period (which may be implied by the partner being gainfully self employed), then transitional protection will end where earnings drop below the threshold for 3 consecutive assessment periods.

If transitional protection ends, the claim will also close where the claimant(s) have more than £16k in savings as there is no longer an entitlement to UC.

If the OP's partner is gainfully self employed and subject to minimum income floor or the start-up period then would they be classed as earning above the AET whatever their ernings?

For the purposes of determining ongoing entitlement to transitional protection, where someone has been found to be gainfully self employed, the higher of their earnings or the MIF will be used as their earnings for the purpose of determining if their earnings are above the AET or not, even within the startup period.

For the purposes of 'earnings falling below the AET for 3 consecutive assessment periods', it is the couple AET rate that applies as it is a couple claim to which said transitional protection applies, even though only one member of the couple may be working.

I don’t see how it can be the couples AET that is used when my ESA doesn’t count towards it (it’s other income apparently) so he is expected to look after me for 35 hrs a week and also do enough work every week to meet the AET for both of us!
that’s a 70 hour week 
@8da@8dayweek

Spoonie_Turtle

kazzyb123 said:

NedS said:

HillStreetBlues said:

NedS said:

Yes, unfortunately this is correct.

This is about entitlement to Transitional Protection. If there were earnings above the AET in the first assessment period (which may be implied by the partner being gainfully self employed), then transitional protection will end where earnings drop below the threshold for 3 consecutive assessment periods.

If transitional protection ends, the claim will also close where the claimant(s) have more than £16k in savings as there is no longer an entitlement to UC.

If the OP's partner is gainfully self employed and subject to minimum income floor or the start-up period then would they be classed as earning above the AET whatever their ernings?

For the purposes of determining ongoing entitlement to transitional protection, where someone has been found to be gainfully self employed, the higher of their earnings or the MIF will be used as their earnings for the purpose of determining if their earnings are above the AET or not, even within the startup period.

For the purposes of 'earnings falling below the AET for 3 consecutive assessment periods', it is the couple AET rate that applies as it is a couple claim to which said transitional protection applies, even though only one member of the couple may be working.

I don’t see how it can be the couples AET that is used when my ESA doesn’t count towards it (it’s other income apparently) so he is expected to look after me for 35 hrs a week and also do enough work every week to meet the AET for both of us!
that’s a 70 hour week

Not really, it's only because earnings were above the AET for the first AP when you migrated (in theory showing it's possible to earn that much even with your joint circumstances) that he's then 'expected' to maintain that in order not to lose transitional protection.

UC wields blunt instruments and unfortunately people get hurt by them.

kazzyb123

@Spoonie_Turtle
thanks for the reply, I think we’ve been unlucky with timing of payments and expenses.

i do stand by the fact that we should have been told what we needed to do to keep the claim open the same as people have work commitments explained. Someone should have asked why things were lower before it came to this point.

KxMx

Perhaps that's something you could feedback to your MP and/or Liz Kendall.