Selling house, car gets parked in garden, no dropped kerb.

Section62

Grumpy_chap said:

Section62 said:

It is correct. There is nothing in the relevant legislation which requires an 'agreement'.

So, is this statement from Bromley incorrect?

" It is illegal to drive over the pavement unless there is a crossover.
There is no right to drive across any public footway to access a private forecourt or driveway unless there is a properly built vehicle crossover (section 184, Highways Act 1980)."

https://www.bromley.gov.uk/roads-highways-pavements/access-drive-crossovers-dropped-kerbs

I still go with saying as little as possible.
There may be an area laid to gravel.  Such areas can be used for parking or any other number of uses.  Best to avoid speculation in the correspondence with the Purchaser's Solicitor.  Neither confirm nor deny outside of clearly proven fact.

EDIT to add a link to the Highways Act:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/184

Yes, it is incorrect.

The illegality is in not complying with a notice issued in accordance with S184(1).  The offence is in sub-section 17 and is very specific.

S184 does not, in itself, remove the common law right of the occupier of land adjacent to a highway to gain access to that land from the highway.  The powers granted by that section are to either require the construction of a vehicle crossover [S184(1)(a)], or to impose reasonable conditions as to "the use of the footway or verge" [S184(1)(b)].  I.e. S184 can be used to control the 'how' - it does not make it illegal in the way Bromley are claiming.

Bromley's statement is also misleading.  S184(1) is specifically worded "across a kerbed footway or a verge" (my emphasis), and does not apply in cases where the footway or verge is not kerbed.  Bromley's use of "any" is therefore an additional misstatement of the law.

But again, I agree with the overall approach suggested because it is unlikely the buyer's solicitor knows much about highway law, or would take the time to look it up.

waveydavey48

I really appreciate everyone's answers. I'm awaiting a response from my solicitors.

Does anyone know what  "covenant consent for the creation of this parking space within the garden area" means?

Thanks again.

Grumpy_chap

waveydavey48 said:

Does anyone know what  "covenant consent for the creation of this parking space within the garden area" means?

Covenants usually place obligations on the property owner to restrict (rather than permit) what can be done and are for the benefit of the neighbourhood.  Often, after the passage of time, covenants become unenforceable.
Typical covenants that you might see:

• To contribute to the upkeep of the local church
• Not to erect fence at the front boundary of the property
• Restrictions on how much the site can be developed
• Only to use the rear garden for the purposes of cultivating crops for the consumption by the property owner plus the quiet enjoyment as a place of relaxation by the property owner
• Not to keep pets or livestock

So, there would rarely be a covenant that permits the use of the space as parking, more so a constraint that does not permit it.  All covenants will be referenced within the property deeds, which is why I covered this in the response suggested upthread:

"I confirm the rear garden is laid to gravel.  Access is over a footpath.  There is no crossover agreement in place and no dropped kerb installed by the Council.  The details of any covenants relating to the property are contained within the Land Registry Deeds, which I understand you are already sighted."

That way, you are neither confirming or denying the use of the space for parking is permitted (or not prohibited) but passing the question back to the Purchaser's Solicitor to make their own enquiries and read the Land Registry Deeds.  The Purchaser's Solicitor is better qualified to read the deeds and explain them to the Purchaser than you are.

Yorkie1

Would suggest you don't contact the council specifically about this unless your solicitor advises this. Often, buyers' solicitors suggest an indemnity policy as an alternative solution to issues that arise - if you have contacted the council then the IP is not available.

FlorayG

Just say the garden is laid to gravel and make sure not to have a car parked on it when people come to view. Just because you are technically breaking the law by parking on there has nothing to do with anybody else who might live there in the future

Section62

FlorayG said:

Just say the garden is laid to gravel and make sure not to have a car parked on it when people come to view. Just because you are technically breaking the law by parking on there has nothing to do with anybody else who might live there in the future

...especially as no law is actually being broken.

(unless there is a planning enforcement notice in place which the OP has not mentioned)

Grumpy_chap

Yorkie1 said:

Would suggest you don't contact the council specifically about this unless your solicitor advises this. Often, buyers' solicitors suggest an indemnity policy as an alternative solution to issues that arise - if you have contacted the council then the IP is not available.

Agree not to contact the Council.
I doubt that an indemnity policy would be possible because there would be nothing against which to insure.

FlorayG said:

Just say the garden is laid to gravel and make sure not to have a car parked on it when people come to view. Just because you are technically breaking the law by parking on there has nothing to do with anybody else who might live there in the future

Or, as the thread has established, not breaking the law (assuming there is no Article 4 Direction in place restricting the OP's creation of a gravel hardstanding in the garden).  No such restriction has been referenced by the OP.
Creating a hardstanding at ground level is Permitted Development.
Removing a boundary fence is Permitted Development.
The gravel hardstanding may be used for purposes other parking a car.

MeteredOut

Grumpy_chap said:

Yorkie1 said:

Would suggest you don't contact the council specifically about this unless your solicitor advises this. Often, buyers' solicitors suggest an indemnity policy as an alternative solution to issues that arise - if you have contacted the council then the IP is not available.

Agree not to contact the Council.
I doubt that an indemnity policy would be possible because there would be nothing against which to insure.

FlorayG said:

Just say the garden is laid to gravel and make sure not to have a car parked on it when people come to view. Just because you are technically breaking the law by parking on there has nothing to do with anybody else who might live there in the future

Or, as the thread has established, not breaking the law (assuming there is no Article 4 Direction in place restricting the OP's creation of a gravel hardstanding in the garden).  No such restriction has been referenced by the OP.
Creating a hardstanding at ground level is Permitted Development.
Removing a boundary fence is Permitted Development.
The gravel hardstanding may be used for purposes other parking a car.

On the flip side

- Do the sales particulars make any reference to the area being used for parking
- Do any pictures on the sales particulars show a car in that space
- Was a car there when the buyers came to view the property
- Were there any discussions about the parking space during viewings (eg, "Yeah, we've parked there for a few years now with no issues")

ie. Have the buyers implicitly been set expectations that it is a parking space, or have they just assumed it is.

None of this necessarily changes any response to the buyers solicitor, but could change how the buyer responds thereafter.

Grumpy_chap

Yes, the Vendor has quite possibly created the expectation that the area can or is used for parking.
As explained in the thread that still does not directly create a breaking of the law, though the Council could enforce restrictions under S184.  @Section62 can explain this better than I can.

A concise and factual response to the Purchaser's Solicitor has been suggested.

It is now for the OP to respond to the Purchaser's Solicitor as they see fit and then update the thread for further comment if required.