What to do when the fraud squad sides with the fraudster? [Amex]

B0bbyEwing

As per some previous threads on here...

Someone got access to my account, used it, I contacted Amex & got the money back.
FFWD some weeks/couple month (I forget the duration) and it happened again. Turned out to be a subscription - so 2 payments before I noticed.

Raised this with Amex, told me to contact their fraud dept, they refunded me pending investigation. 
Investigation got resolved .... they found the payments to be legit so reversed the refunds.

This is a load of nonsense. Never heard of the company in my life & nobody else had access to the card - so total fraud. Especially so when I contacted the company & they gave me partial info to who took out the subscription and I didn't recognise the email at all. Even the email provider I couldn't make out (as in it wasn't gmail.com for example - so they'd have provided something like g***l.c*m which could've easily been sussed - but it wasn't that).

I've contacted Amex again who've told me to go back to their fraud dept. 

Now this may or may not be procedure. I feel like I'm being given the run around though.

Once an investigation is decided on & you don't agree with it, who do you go to? Back to that same department?

Let's say their decision is to uphold their decision. Who do you go to then? I would imagine it'd be some organisation outside of the one you're dealing with (so not Amex in this case, someone else)? As you can tell I have no idea what to do with this.

Someone will probably ask the amounts. 2x £13. 
To which some would say they couldn't be bothered for that amount. 
The amount is irrelevant to me. I'd be doing this for a £5 charge just the same. I didn't make the payments so I don't see why I should accept them.

I would've thought they could do things like ip checks & contact the website themselves to determine the billing probably wasn't from the UK & since I haven't left the UK in nearly 20 years then it can't be me.

But yeah to stick to the point - how do I go about challenging this? And if the answer is do as Amex say then where do I go once/if their fraud dept uphold their original decision?

grumpy_codger

B0bbyEwing said:

Once an investigation is decided on & you don't agree with it, who do you go to? Back to that same department?

...

But yeah to stick to the point - how do I go about challenging this? And if the answer is do as Amex say then where do I go once/if their fraud dept uphold their original decision?

https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/legal/customer-complaints.html

As simple as that.

p00hsticks

B0bbyEwing said:

This is a load of nonsense. Never heard of the company in my life & nobody else had access to the card - so total fraud. Especially so when I contacted the company & they gave me partial info to who took out the subscription and I didn't recognise the email at all. Even the email provider I couldn't make out (as in it wasn't gmail.com for example - so they'd have provided something like g***l.c*m which could've easily been sussed - but it wasn't that).

In my view it was a bit naughty of that company to give you that info if you are claiming that the transaction is nothing to do with you and you are therefore not their customer...

HillStreetBlues

B0bbyEwing said:

As per some previous threads on here...

Someone got access to my account, used it, I contacted Amex & got the money back.
FFWD some weeks/couple month (I forget the duration) and it happened again. Turned out to be a subscription - so 2 payments before I noticed.

Raised this with Amex, told me to contact their fraud dept, they refunded me pending investigation. 
Investigation got resolved .... they found the payments to be legit so reversed the refunds.

This is a load of nonsense. Never heard of the company in my life & nobody else had access to the card - so total fraud. Especially so when I contacted the company & they gave me partial info to who took out the subscription and I didn't recognise the email at all. Even the email provider I couldn't make out (as in it wasn't gmail.com for example - so they'd have provided something like g***l.c*m which could've easily been sussed - but it wasn't that).

I've contacted Amex again who've told me to go back to their fraud dept. 

Now this may or may not be procedure. I feel like I'm being given the run around though.

Once an investigation is decided on & you don't agree with it, who do you go to? Back to that same department?

Let's say their decision is to uphold their decision. Who do you go to then? I would imagine it'd be some organisation outside of the one you're dealing with (so not Amex in this case, someone else)? As you can tell I have no idea what to do with this.

Someone will probably ask the amounts. 2x £13. 
To which some would say they couldn't be bothered for that amount. 
The amount is irrelevant to me. I'd be doing this for a £5 charge just the same. I didn't make the payments so I don't see why I should accept them.

I would've thought they could do things like ip checks & contact the website themselves to determine the billing probably wasn't from the UK & since I haven't left the UK in nearly 20 years then it can't be me.

But yeah to stick to the point - how do I go about challenging this? And if the answer is do as Amex say then where do I go once/if their fraud dept uphold their original decision?

If you've unhappy with Amex final decision then you can go to the ombudsman.
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

grumpy_codger

HillStreetBlues said:

B0bbyEwing said:

As per some previous threads on here...

Someone got access to my account, used it, I contacted Amex & got the money back.
FFWD some weeks/couple month (I forget the duration) and it happened again. Turned out to be a subscription - so 2 payments before I noticed.

Raised this with Amex, told me to contact their fraud dept, they refunded me pending investigation. 
Investigation got resolved .... they found the payments to be legit so reversed the refunds.

This is a load of nonsense. Never heard of the company in my life & nobody else had access to the card - so total fraud. Especially so when I contacted the company & they gave me partial info to who took out the subscription and I didn't recognise the email at all. Even the email provider I couldn't make out (as in it wasn't gmail.com for example - so they'd have provided something like g***l.c*m which could've easily been sussed - but it wasn't that).

I've contacted Amex again who've told me to go back to their fraud dept. 

Now this may or may not be procedure. I feel like I'm being given the run around though.

Once an investigation is decided on & you don't agree with it, who do you go to? Back to that same department?

Let's say their decision is to uphold their decision. Who do you go to then? I would imagine it'd be some organisation outside of the one you're dealing with (so not Amex in this case, someone else)? As you can tell I have no idea what to do with this.

Someone will probably ask the amounts. 2x £13. 
To which some would say they couldn't be bothered for that amount. 
The amount is irrelevant to me. I'd be doing this for a £5 charge just the same. I didn't make the payments so I don't see why I should accept them.

I would've thought they could do things like ip checks & contact the website themselves to determine the billing probably wasn't from the UK & since I haven't left the UK in nearly 20 years then it can't be me.

But yeah to stick to the point - how do I go about challenging this? And if the answer is do as Amex say then where do I go once/if their fraud dept uphold their original decision?

If you've unhappy with Amex final decision then you can go to the ombudsman.
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

It's worth clarifying that this decision has to be the outcome of Amex's formal complaints procedure.

The OP asked

B0bbyEwing said:

where do I go once/if their fraud dept uphold their original decision?

DullGreyGuy

B0bbyEwing said:
I would've thought they could do things like ip checks & contact the website themselves to determine the billing probably wasn't from the UK & since I haven't left the UK in nearly 20 years then it can't be me.

But yeah to stick to the point - how do I go about challenging this? And if the answer is do as Amex say then where do I go once/if their fraud dept uphold their original decision?

It can be you, IP address are something you can control to a degree hence HBO Max currently thinks I am sitting in Miami watching a TV show on their streaming service when I am actually sitting in my lounge in London. At the same time my work currently thinks I am simultaneously accessing their services from Knightsbridge and Southwark. This evening Netflix will think I am in Japan. VPNs explicitly sell themselves on allowing you to control where you appear to be these days if you want to access services that are geographically restricted or hide your location for another purpose. 

Your first step would be to register a complaint, your second step if you arent happy with the outcome would be to go to the Ombudsman. 

B0bbyEwing

So at this stage what is the process? 

Go to the F.O. or try their fraud dept again / their complaints dept? 

As for the other company, they never gave me the other person's precise details. A load of the email was starred out & they asked if I recognised it. 

They wanted my bank details to confirm the transaction which at the time I didn't give.

Later on my card was changed, I was back in contact with the company who again gave me that person's email with different characters starred out. I gave them the original details this time round & they closed the subscription down from it. 

But to view it as an outsider, which I'm obviously not, I could've just said I don't recognise it even if it was my address anyway. So I'm not sure what good asking me the question was. 

grumpy_codger

B0bbyEwing said:

So at this stage what is the process? 

See the link above?

Go to the F.O. or try their fraud dept again?

Neither.

If you don't believe Amex, see https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/how-to-complain

B0bbyEwing

grumpy_codger said:

B0bbyEwing said:

So at this stage what is the process? 

See the link above?

If you don't believe Amex, see https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/how-to-complain

Sorry, forgot to add in complaints as one of the 3 possibilities. 

400ixl

As people have told you.

Next step is to raise a formal complaint with Amex. If the result of that is not to your liking, then you can take it to the Ombudsman for an external view.

B0bbyEwing

400ixl said:

As people have told you.

Next step is to raise a formal complaint with Amex. If the result of that is not to your liking, then you can take it to the Ombudsman for an external view.

You'll have to forgive me for checking because it wasn't a case of "as people have told you" since I was told different things - hence wanting to check what is correct. 

Complaints was one, ombudsman was another. 

You may say the ombudsman was on the basis of a "final decision" but is that what I have now or to repeat the process & then maybe that one is the final one.... Again, hence the question. 

Anyway, I'll go the complaints route. 

Thanks.