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Tucosalamanca

It would be unfortunate if someone accidentally cut though the cable, which isn't correctly shielded or at the appropriate depth.
The neighbour would have no power to their garage or be able to charge their car, their electrics would trip and they would have no way of repairing as the cable isn't on their land.
One slip of a shovel or excavator and it very much becomes their problem, not yours...

Grumpy_chap

This seems like a situation where legal rights & wrongs may differ from what the real world rights and wrongs.

To sort this legally with wayleaves etc as suggested will sour relationships, cost both sides a fair chunk of expense, be a dispute that needs to be declared when selling the house.

To sort this practically, the OP can ask (and has asked) that the neighbour re-routes the cable to the other side of the fence.  The neighbour is not compliant.

The more real world pragmatic response now (rather than legal pathways or disagreements) is for the OP to carry on with the construction of their driveway as planned, excavate around the cable so that the cable can fall to the correct depth (500 mm or more) and then set that in a duct with marker tape above.  The duct will be within the subbase for the new driveway, so set in hardcore or concrete and will not move.  Given the cable is already laid, there are "split ducts" readily available which enclose the existing cable.  The cost of this, if done as part of the driveway, will be negligible.

The above approach makes everything safe, preserves neighbourly relationships, still allows the neighbour to have power to the shed.  If the cable ever needs maintenance in the future, the neighbour can either draw replacement cable through the duct, or can relay new cable within their land on the other side of the fence.

Not worth making a mountain from what started as a molehill.

Reference for 500 mm buried cable depth:
https://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2019/77-september-2019/bs-76712018-frequently-asked-questions/

Keep_pedalling

Eldi_Dos said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Eldi_Dos said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Have another word with your electrician about who to report the unsafe non compliant power cable to. Alternatively call 105, who can put you through to you DNO and see what they say. 

The DNO will only be concerned up to the meter and be unlikely to express opinion on a neighbours installtion beyond the meter.

They can cut the supply where wiring beyond the meter presents an immediate danger.

https://www.electricalsafetyroundtable.co.uk/england-wales-scotland.aspx

I think I would at least threaten my idiot neighbours with doing this if they refused to disconnect the cable. 

If the DNO needed entry, which they would be unlikely to want in this case, they would need a warrant or court order and have to liase with bailiffs or police to enforce such order. Do you think in this case that is really going to happen.

Not if the wiring presents a dangerous to life, and anyway the OPs neighbours are idiots so I think the mere threat that they will lose power to the whole house might be the kick up the bum they need. 

Grumpy_chap

AyeJackson said:

Thanks for such a detailed answer Grumpy Chap! Ideally it'd be great if we could de-escalate the situation at all, it's all getting very silly for something that seemed quite simple. My only worry is that as the cable is not compliant with the safety regs, if we have it on our land are we then responsible if anything goes wrong? Also if it isn't documented, we are concerned that we might be putting future owners at risk if they dig around there etc. (We were actually digging very close to it last year without realising!)

If you do as I described - excavate down so the cable is dropped to 500 mm below finished ground level, fit the cable within split duct and the marker tape above, the part that passes over your land will be compliant with safety / electrical regulations.  You can set the duct where it passes through your land so it does not move.  You will not be at risk of an accidental utility strike within your property.  If your builder / landscaper is reasonable, this should cost nothing extra really on top of the job, or maybe a few £££.  Obviously, if the builder / landscaper has been delayed while all the discussion has taken place with the neighbour, the cost will escalate.

Where the cable passes outside your land feeding the neighbours shed, well, if they put a shovel through their own cable that is their own problem.  The fact you encased the part through your land in a duct means they can easily draw another cable through or can, of course, simply lay a replacement in their side of the fence.

I actually think some forbearance is reasonable here as cables laid along fence lines do move and can move under the fence boundary.  Exactly this happened when we renewed our fence a few years back.  We had a SWA cable properly laid to our shed, close to the fence, but on our side.  My neighbour had a SWA cable properly laid to their shed, close to the fence, but on their side.  When we took out the fence and were creating the holes for the new posts plus the new gravel boards (which we set down a bit to prevent foxes digging under the new fence as they did with the old fence), we found that both of the cables were intertwined along the fence line and both passed back and forth a few times.  Our fence contractor did straighten them both out so both cables were the correct side of the fence.  I fully suspect the cables are now shifted and could be intertwined and crossing the fence line back and forth again.  It just happens with movement of the soil, all aided by worms and ants and other little creatures that we need in the soil and, no doubt the foxes and squirrels and rats that we maybe aren't so keen to have playing in the soil.

Good neighbourly relations and the most simple practical solution really does seem to be for the best here.

Grumpy_chap

AyeJackson said:

Hiya, thanks again for such a detailed response! It's good to know that we would no longer be liable if we were to take such action. I appreciate I didn't include any of these details in my post so there's no way you could have known, but the cable unfortunately isn't SWA, or close to the boundary line at all - it's a good 1.5 / 2 metres into our property line I'd estimate. They have actually said they don't want the cable buried, they want it to be 'loose and visible' on top of the ground, but we're concerned about this being a trip hazard.

I'll see what our landscaper says on this, we are a bit scared to go near it ourselves due to the safety aspect. It would be great to get it all resolved, as the neighbours have definitely taken this the wrong way and seem to have made it their mission to make things awkward for us! 

You did mention upthread that the cable is not SWA.  If it was, you could simply bury the cable and job done.
The neighbour may wish to have the cable above ground.  They can if they re-route the cable to their side of the fence.
Can you provide an extract of the land registry record for your property with the cable position marked on it?
I am assuming that this neighbour's cable is definitely in your land, but that makes me wonder how this thread went down some of the alleyways it managed to find.

1. This is the MSE forum.
2. MSE = Money Saving Expert.
3. We seem to be talking about an extension lead running down a garden to a shed / garage.
4. You could go legal and try to set up wayleaves and all that goes with that.  The cost will be upwards of £10k for each of you and your neighbour.  Assuming you can find a Land Agent that wishes to get involved and does not laugh.  In fact, you will need two Land Agents to want to bother with it - one for you and one for the neighbour.
5. You could just leave the cable as it is, re-bury the cable when doing the driveway.  *shrug*
6. You could make the part on your land comply with regulations, should cost £500 tops, gives you more peace-of-mind than do nothing *shrug*.

Most people would probably *shrug*.  Your conscience seems to be better than that.  Very few people would bother with wayleaves.  Your choice.

AyeJackson

Grumpy_chap said:

AyeJackson said:

Hiya, thanks again for such a detailed response! It's good to know that we would no longer be liable if we were to take such action. I appreciate I didn't include any of these details in my post so there's no way you could have known, but the cable unfortunately isn't SWA, or close to the boundary line at all - it's a good 1.5 / 2 metres into our property line I'd estimate. They have actually said they don't want the cable buried, they want it to be 'loose and visible' on top of the ground, but we're concerned about this being a trip hazard.

I'll see what our landscaper says on this, we are a bit scared to go near it ourselves due to the safety aspect. It would be great to get it all resolved, as the neighbours have definitely taken this the wrong way and seem to have made it their mission to make things awkward for us! 

You did mention upthread that the cable is not SWA.  If it was, you could simply bury the cable and job done.
The neighbour may wish to have the cable above ground.  They can if they re-route the cable to their side of the fence.
Can you provide an extract of the land registry record for your property with the cable position marked on it?
I am assuming that this neighbour's cable is definitely in your land, but that makes me wonder how this thread went down some of the alleyways it managed to find.

1. This is the MSE forum.
2. MSE = Money Saving Expert.
3. We seem to be talking about an extension lead running down a garden to a shed / garage.
4. You could go legal and try to set up wayleaves and all that goes with that.  The cost will be upwards of £10k for each of you and your neighbour.  Assuming you can find a Land Agent that wishes to get involved and does not laugh.  In fact, you will need two Land Agents to want to bother with it - one for you and one for the neighbour.
5. You could just leave the cable as it is, re-bury the cable when doing the driveway.  *shrug*
6. You could make the part on your land comply with regulations, should cost £500 tops, gives you more peace-of-mind than do nothing *shrug*.

Most people would probably *shrug*.  Your conscience seems to be better than that.  Very few people would bother with wayleaves.  Your choice.

Hiya, thanks again for your time, really appreciate this and all the other replies I've had so far!

You're completely right that we'd love to avoid any hefty bills and would like to resolve this in the cheapest way possible while making sure it's all safe, bit of a pickle really.

Please see below our property line and my terrible drawing of approximate cable locations! I currently park on the little triangle where it runs through, so definitely don't want the cable above ground there as that seems a bit risky. The little dip 'in' on the way to the garage is where the electric car charger is, and then it ends up in their garage. It does actually emerge on our other neighbours piece of land, and is loose in front of his back gate, but we haven't had any discussions with him about it.

AyeJackson

I now realise I could have put a picture in with my initial post, would have made it much easier to explain! Newbie alert lol! 😃 

Grumpy_chap

AyeJackson said:

Hiya, thanks again for your time, really appreciate this and all the other replies I've had so far!

You're completely right that we'd love to avoid any hefty bills and would like to resolve this in the cheapest way possible while making sure it's all safe, bit of a pickle really.

Please see below our property line and my terrible drawing of approximate cable locations! I currently park on the little triangle where it runs through, so definitely don't want the cable above ground there as that seems a bit risky. The little dip 'in' on the way to the garage is where the electric car charger is, and then it ends up in their garage. It does actually emerge on our other neighbours piece of land, and is loose in front of his back gate, but we haven't had any discussions with him about it.

Dealing with the cable is easy and as I described above - simply duct the section on your land.
What I would do though is read your deeds in detail as that area seems to be beyond the hard boundary of your property and may be an area considered "highways extents" which might restrict any rights you have to park there or create a hardstanding.  Who maintains that area?
Is the cable across your land currently buried? 
What is the current surface where the driveway is to be created?

AyeJackson

Grumpy_chap said:

AyeJackson said:

Hiya, thanks again for your time, really appreciate this and all the other replies I've had so far!

You're completely right that we'd love to avoid any hefty bills and would like to resolve this in the cheapest way possible while making sure it's all safe, bit of a pickle really.

Please see below our property line and my terrible drawing of approximate cable locations! I currently park on the little triangle where it runs through, so definitely don't want the cable above ground there as that seems a bit risky. The little dip 'in' on the way to the garage is where the electric car charger is, and then it ends up in their garage. It does actually emerge on our other neighbours piece of land, and is loose in front of his back gate, but we haven't had any discussions with him about it.

Dealing with the cable is easy and as I described above - simply duct the section on your land.
What I would do though is read your deeds in detail as that area seems to be beyond the hard boundary of your property and may be an area considered "highways extents" which might restrict any rights you have to park there or create a hardstanding.  Who maintains that area?
Is the cable across your land currently buried? 
What is the current surface where the driveway is to be created?

That does sound like a good solution. We have read all of our deeds and can't remember seeing anything like that, but will double check!

 I think ours is a slightly odd situation as our neighbourhood is privately owned and managed by our residents association. The driveway is essentially a private road, and responsibility for it is shared between us and the other two houses that border it. We maintain the area within the red line where the cable is, it is a muddy, grassy area with some gravel put there by previous owners, and the cable is currently slightly buried by soil.

Actually, the same neighbours who put the cable there used to park where I park my car, although apparently they had no agreement to do so from the former owners (they let the property out) - I don't think they ever forgave us for reclaiming it, which is why they might be being difficult now.

QrizB

AyeJackson said:

The little dip 'in' on the way to the garage is where the electric car charger is ...

He's running an electric car charger from this jury-rig?

There are quite specific requirements in the Wiring Regs about those. It's your call but I would be very wary of enabling this for him.

Have we got any actual electricians in this thread who can comment?