What is this thing? Basement 'Flat' in London for £5000 auction guide price

RHemmings

What on earth is this? 

https://www.auctionhouse.co.uk/london/auction/lot/136120

Photos are useless, because they just show the houses. Going through documents, I can't find anything that suggests that it might be habitable. There are some terms that worry me. E.g. that the buyer will be responsible for all outstanding bills/charges including those from before the purchase. The buyer will be responsible for clearing the area; rubbish will not be removed. (And, what sort of rubbish? Toxic waste?) I can't see anything in the leasehold agreement that confirms to me that it's a liveable property. From the documents, whatever this space is it sold for £5000 in 2020. Nowhere can I see any sign of where the entrance to the basement is. And, I looked at all photos of listings of all three above ground flats. 

In my cynicism, I'm believing that it's just a storage space. As in how garages are sold separately. And, possibly a millstone. E.g. I couldn't see (may have skim read too quickly) how maintenance charges for the building are divided between the - presumably - four properties in the building that the freehold refers to. Zoopla sold house prices lists three flats at the address, but all three of them are proper flats that are above ground. A storage space that is potentially encumbered with unpaid bills, and full of toxic waste that the new buyer would be responsible for. 

This seems a very strange thing to be on sale as a separate 'property', or whatever it is. 

jimbog

On the Lewisham planning website you can see the current layout and the plans that were rejected:

https://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-applications/files/7DAD0A6923645D0197EB8EFD720338BB/pdf/DC_21_119896-EXISTING_AND_PROPOSED_PLAN_DRAWINGS-958685.pdf

Section62

jimbog said:

On the Lewisham planning website you can see the current layout and the plans that were rejected:

https://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-applications/files/7DAD0A6923645D0197EB8EFD720338BB/pdf/DC_21_119896-EXISTING_AND_PROPOSED_PLAN_DRAWINGS-958685.pdf

I hope whoever buys it reads the planning case documents before bidding.

Emmia

Section62 said:

jimbog said:

On the Lewisham planning website you can see the current layout and the plans that were rejected:

https://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-applications/files/7DAD0A6923645D0197EB8EFD720338BB/pdf/DC_21_119896-EXISTING_AND_PROPOSED_PLAN_DRAWINGS-958685.pdf

I hope whoever buys it reads the planning case documents before bidding.

Link isn't working now?

Section62

Emmia said:

Section62 said:

jimbog said:

On the Lewisham planning website you can see the current layout and the plans that were rejected:

https://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-applications/files/7DAD0A6923645D0197EB8EFD720338BB/pdf/DC_21_119896-EXISTING_AND_PROPOSED_PLAN_DRAWINGS-958685.pdf

I hope whoever buys it reads the planning case documents before bidding.

Link isn't working now?

I just searched for the postcode from here...
https://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-applications/

QrizB

Section62 said:

I just searched for the postcode from here...
https://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-applications/

Or search for the reference, 119896

RHemmings

Thanks for that @jimbug In hindsight I should have gone straight to the planning portal. After the last attempt I made to find planning in London failed, I didn't. But, in hindsight, Lewisham's planning portal works fine. The link in your post didn't for me, first time. But, as mentioned above, I searched on the postcode. 

For me at least I can't read the comments. They display as blank. But, the summary is that there were 13 comments. 11 of which were against the conversion to a flat, and 2 for.

Personally I never had any expectation that the space would be liveable or be able to be converted, or it wouldn't be for sale. Looking at the fine print saying that the purchaser takes on all bills and charges, including those that already exists, I wonder if the previous purchaser from 2020 is now facing some bills and charges and their initial £5000 investment plus the costs of the planning application, ground rent and ... would it qualify for council tax, might have become a big liability, potentially including shared costs for repairs/improvements to the property. 

I'm a bit confused by the nature of the planning application. It mentions building light wells and access by landscaping the front and rear garden. But, I think that the leasehold title plan is only for the building. Not for the garden. So, that would then require landscaping land for which there is no leasehold. I think. Maybe. Unless I've got that wrong (which often happens.) 

This is from the leasehold title plan.



And, this is from the freehold title plan. 



I'm not sure what those numbers mean, but the leasehold of the freehold takes in the gardens, but the leasehold title plan doesn't. I don't understand leasehold title plans well. 

If I was the owner of the ground floor flat, then I might be tempted to look into whether it's possible to buy the basement, and then combine it into the ground floor flat. However, I have no idea whether that would require planning permission that might be refused. (I'm thinking that the owner of the ground floor flat would probably know what is down there and what sort of charges/costs they might take on if they bought.) 

The appeal statement says that the basement is only accessible from the downstairs flat. And, hence, if someone buys this, they have a property that can only be accessed by going through someone else's property. The appeal document also mentions letting in natural light to the planned basement flat by adding 'large widows' (sic). 

The appeal statement also seems to respond to a statement that the property at 180 Stanstead Road is an eyesore. Google maps appear to shows work going on there to provide access to the basement. I.e. 



With what I've learned from the planning applications, the 'property' in the OP seems even stranger than I first thought. It's a cautionary tale. I suspect that the amount that the previous buyers have lost may be larger than the £5000 spent on the basement in the first place. I wonder how it got separated out into a separate leasehold property. 

There's something weird going on at 180 Stanstead Road. As there appears to have been building works there continuously since 2008. From what I see on Google Maps streetview images. 

I used to live a very short distance away, in Kemble Road. 

Section62 said:

I hope whoever buys it reads the planning case documents before bidding.

Pass the parcel? 

jimbog

RHemmings said:

Section62 said:

I hope whoever buys it reads the planning case documents before bidding.

Pass the parcel? 

There is so much info on every property available online these days that I'm always surprised that potential purchasers don't scrutinise leases/freehold titles/planning applications/flood maps before even instructing solicitors or paying for a survey

RHemmings

jimbog said:

RHemmings said:

Section62 said:

I hope whoever buys it reads the planning case documents before bidding.

Pass the parcel? 

There is so much info on every property available online these days that I'm always surprised that potential purchasers don't scrutinise leases/freehold titles/planning applications/flood maps before even instructing solicitors or paying for a survey

I hate to mention this example, in case the poster is still here. But, I did see a cautionary tale here where someone bought a property at auction and only realised after purchase that the garden wasn't included. 

I used to obtain the title register and plan for every property I viewed even. But, that was back when they were £3 each, not £7. If I was to buy again, I'd probably purchase the documents immediately after a viewing if I was still interested. 

silvercar

Maybe the owner of the ground floor flat needs to show a value and one way of doing so is an auction?

RHemmings

silvercar said:

Maybe the owner of the ground floor flat needs to show a value and one way of doing so is an auction?

According to the planning application documents, one of the owners of the basement at the time of the application has the same address as the basement. So, that could be a flat within the same building. Unless they are using the addresss when they only own the basement. But, given the photos and comparison to No. 180, I think that this was a very genuine attempt to turn the basement into a flat to be sold on.