Help with CCJ/Writ of control

ChirpyChicken

Definitely don't pay

Manwan

Why not pay? I would have the CCJ set aside. Isn’t there a chance that I go to the set aside hearing and I lose? And therefore end up having to pay and still have a ccj for 6 years 

Coupon-mad

Manwan said:

Why not pay? I would have the CCJ set aside. Isn’t there a chance that I go to the set aside hearing and I lose? And therefore end up having to pay and still have a ccj for 6 years 

No. DO NOT PAY.

You will get the CCJ set aside under CPR 13.2 if it went to an incorrect address and you never received it.

The Judge cannot (has no discretion to) refuse an application under CPR 13.2 where the claim form wasn't received.

Trust the process or ask Contestor Legal if they can attend your hearing with you if you feel scared and unsure.

They can argue it and get costs, and get the Claim struck out too, usually! Google them and ask if they can attend that day. For a 5 PCN claim - four figures - it is well worth their fee (which they will argue to be covered with all your costs).

That's how to spend your money, NOT by agreeing to a 'consent order' (binning your £303) then still having to defend the PCNs at a second hearing that you don't sound confident about how to argue.

Get help to argue the whole claim gets struck out and the CCJ set aside and all costs.

Do NOT accept that draft consent order. They've sent it because they KNOW this is a mandatory set aside and that your £303 costs will be awarded against them (provided you ask and explain what the parking firm did wrong - unreasonable conduct).

Manwan

But remember, I didn’t pay £300+ for the set aside hearing, I only paid £14 bevause of the writ. 

The original parking tickets were sent to the correct address, I just didn’t pay.

It was only years later when they took me to court when letters were sent to the incorrect address. 

Considering this, is the judge still likely to cancel the entire debt? Logically, it seems more likely that the judge would just set aside the judgement but I would still end owing the £1000.

thanks again!!

Coupon-mad

is the judge still likely to cancel the entire debt? Logically, it seems more likely that the judge would just set aside the judgement but I would still end owing the £1000.

Errr... no. That isn't what happens and no Judge would award a GRAND for 4 PCNs!

Even if (after the CCJ is set aside) you had a second hearing re the PCNs and lost against liability for all four (almost unheard of...), that's £400 plus about £150 in court fees.

It is not four figures! They added fake 'damages' as they always do.

I'm telling you they are trying this Consent Order (which has no value to you) as a last throw of the dice because they know the CCJ will certainly be set aside AND that they'll either discontinue the claim after that or they'd lose the case later anyway.

DCB Legal don't want hearings. You do.

What's the defence going to be about? Is this a retail park case? Free parking but overstay? Machines not working? Why 4 PCNs?

Manwan

Coupon-mad said:

What's the defence going to be about? Is this a retail park case? Free parking but overstay? Machines not working? Why 4 PCNs?

It was a retail car park with 2 hours free close to my girlfriend’s that I would sometimes park as I didn’t have a permit and they didn’t police the parking for years. First three tickets were in 2020, 3 separate days in a month for overstaying. I stopped parking there but I never paid the fines. The fourth was for not parking within the lines in 2022.

I would presume that the initial letters did go to my correct address at the time but I was younger and didn’t/couldn’t pay and didn’t think this would cause me issues in the future.

It’s all the documents relating to the CCJ, writ etc that went to an incorrect address.

I’m willing to stay the course and trust the process, I just wanted to be 100% your advice remains the same with these details.

thanks 

Coupon-mad

Manwan said:

they’ve emailed me this.

Effectively offering to set aside my judgement if I pay the costs for the fines before it went to county court, approximately £1000. 

Manwan said:

Coupon-mad said:

What's the defence going to be about? Is this a retail park case? Free parking but overstay? Machines not working? Why 4 PCNs?

It was a retail car park with 2 hours free 

I’m willing to stay the course and trust the process, I just wanted to be 100% your advice remains the same with these details.

thanks 

I'd be very careful what you say at the CCJ set aside hearing and you may wish to edit your reply like I have above!

ALSO DO NOT SAY THIS:

I am mostly concerned about getting the CCJ set aside as it’s preventing me finding any private accommodation.

Did you get the POC from the CNBC?

If yes, show us the POC, minus your VRM.

If no, how do you know it's 4 PCNs?

Do NOT talk about the PCNs at the hearing.

Just repeat the mantra that you need to see the Particulars first (assuming you haven't had them?) and that if this was for 3 or 4 PCNs - which you don't actually know without the POC - then that would be £300 or £400 plus court fees, not c£1500!

The claim must be hugely exaggerated and the POC need to be seen.

But ... just so you know: Overstay in a free retail park is similar to the Beavis case ... which is bad news unless the signage was inadequate.

You will need to be adamant that you can't be expected to defend against several unknown and different PCN allegations without receiving the Particulars and as such, you must be granted the right to enter a defence after the CCJ is set aside under CPR 13.2 (but after seeing the original POC).

The end hearing could be hard work but they can't have 4 x £70 nor the unjust enrichment of 8% interest for doing nothing for years.

Hmmmm...OK. Due to the difficulties you could face at the hearings (and the delay in waiting for the first CCJ set aside hearing date) and these facts:

1. You only spent £14 on this application so you don't need your costs back...but DCB Legal don't know you didn't spend £303.

2. But you can't sign that Consent order in a million years because they want a thousand quid!

So my thoughts, now that I know the PCN background, is that you should be pragmatic:

EITHER

- you now make them an offer (maybe £200?) to resolve the case with you signing their consent order and not seeking any costs (point out "this offer has significant value to them" but DON'T say the application only cost £14 and DON'T let on how desperate you are to see the back of this).

If they counter offer, then you counter offer, as far as you are prepared to go. Carry on...email tennis and you may even reach agreement by next week ... let us know how it goes.

OR, similar but without an early offer:

-  you could email DCB Legal your own suggested draft Consent Order. You can certainly include 'no order as to costs' at the end. And it would start the same way as their one in that the judgment be set aside but needs to state that CPR 13.2 applies, not the discretionary 13.3 which I suspect their one says?

Then in the middle of your suggested consent order, state that :

a - the Claimants are to re-serve a copy of the Claim Particulars to the correct address within 14 days of service of the Order

b - the Defendant must file and serve a defence within 14 days of service of the original Claim Particulars

c - both parties contact the Court Mediation Service to try to reach settlement, and both parties must inform the court whether the case is settled within 40 days of (b).

Trouble is, that second option involves delaying sorting it out and you'd rather see this resolved and move on, wouldn't you?

So I suspect you'll think about the first suggestion and make a low starting offer?

It's got to be your choice!

Do show us the POC if you did get them.

Manwan

I have the POC from the CNBC. 

I made an early offer. I offered £300 which was promptly declined without a counter. 

I am thinking of leaving it a day and offering £500 but from their response, it doesn’t seem like they want to negotiate.

Coupon-mad

Manwan said:

I have the POC from the CNBC. 

I made an early offer. I offered £300 which was promptly declined without a counter. 

I am thinking of leaving it a day and offering £500 but from their response, it doesn’t seem like they want to negotiate.

Nononono!  DO NOT OFFER THAT MUCH!

Stop and look.

Look at the 'reason' given there in the POC.

Surely you have a certain win in 3 out of 4 of those PCNs because you cannot POSSIBLY have parked 'outside of a bay' four times.  They made a mistake on the 'reason' didn't they?

And 3 out of 4 times were during Covid when parking rules were generally relaxed. 

Manwan

I haven’t replied to them yet. Yes only one of the times I was parked outside of the lines and that was in 2022.