House Purchase- Fire Break missing between Garage and utility room on extension

Dannygee22

I'm wondering if anyone can help. We are nearing the completion of a purchase of a property and the survey has brought up an issue with a firebreak between the garage and a newly built utility room as part of an extension. The extension has full planning permission which I have seen, but there appears to be building regs missing for this part of the conversion.

The main issue we have is time. We have had to pull out of a previous house purchase due to the survey, and we are currently top of a chain, so we are on a deadline to get things progressed. 

I have been doing some research as to what is required checking Building regs guidelines and comparing it against the survey, and I have a couple of questions for you-

1, Current safety issue- Is the house unsafe to be occupied right now? I know there is work that needs to be done, but how urgent is it. I have a young family, we love the house, but obviously not if it is dangerous.

2. Insurance- I have been looking at buildings insurance quotes- It is very difficult to declare an issue with building regs, but I have been able to get reasonable quotes based on having ongoing work in the property. Do these defects invalidate buildings insurance?

3. From what I understand from the survey, in order to retrofit it to code we could -

  Add 12.5mm Gypsum wallboard to the wall between the garage and the utility room (does the roof need to be done too?)

  Firestop foam or cuffs around all the Service penetrations in the attic void

  Firedoor replace the main door

 Once that is fitted, we can get a building notice submitted to verify.

 I have reached out to some contractors, but no-one is particularly interested in doing this work. I need to understand the risks and the cost implications. I am meeting the vendor at the property next week to discuss some other issues, and so far they have been pretty amenable. I have spoken to the surveyor who met them at the property, and he discussed this issue with them, but this was obviously only advice at that point.

If anyone could offer any advice or point me in areas where I could do further research and get quotes it would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Section62

Dannygee22 said:

I'm wondering if anyone can help. We are nearing the completion of a purchase of a property and the survey has brought up an issue with a firebreak between the garage and a newly built utility room as part of an extension. The extension has full planning permission which I have seen, but there appears to be building regs missing for this part of the conversion.

The main issue we have is time. We have had to pull out of a previous house purchase due to the survey, and we are currently top of a chain, so we are on a deadline to get things progressed. 

I have been doing some research as to what is required checking Building regs guidelines and comparing it against the survey, and I have a couple of questions for you-

1, Current safety issue- Is the house unsafe to be occupied right now? I know there is work that needs to be done, but how urgent is it. I have a young family, we love the house, but obviously not if it is dangerous.

2. Insurance- I have been looking at buildings insurance quotes- It is very difficult to declare an issue with building regs, but I have been able to get reasonable quotes based on having ongoing work in the property. Do these defects invalidate buildings insurance?

3. From what I understand from the survey, in order to retrofit it to code we could -

  Add 12.5mm Gypsum wallboard to the wall between the garage and the utility room (does the roof need to be done too?)

  Firestop foam or cuffs around all the Service penetrations in the attic void

  Firedoor replace the main door

 Once that is fitted, we can get a building notice submitted to verify.

 I have reached out to some contractors, but no-one is particularly interested in doing this work. I need to understand the risks and the cost implications. I am meeting the vendor at the property next week to discuss some other issues, and so far they have been pretty amenable. I have spoken to the surveyor who met them at the property, and he discussed this issue with them, but this was obviously only advice at that point.

If anyone could offer any advice or point me in areas where I could do further research and get quotes it would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

1) If the garage isn't used to store flammable materials then the risk would be considerably lower, but then safety is down to yourself remembering not to use the garage as originally intended before you get round to fixing the issue.  Fire safety has taken a higher profile since Grenfell, but unfortunately not everyone would equate the lack of proper fire resistance within their home with the idea of attaching "flammable cladding" on the outside.

2) It will depend on the insurance company, some might just reject a claim (or part of a claim) where an existing defect had an impact on the outcome of the event being claimed for.  The safety of your family is obviously the higher priority here.

3) It depends how the internal space in the property is compartmentalised.  If flame/smoke can get to another part of the building via the ceiling of the garage then the ceiling also needs the appropriate level of fire resistance.  This is a specialist area though - you need to get advice from a suitably qualified expert who understands the issues involved in retrofitting.

Builders are unlikely to be interested while you are still just a prospective owner - they don't know you will buy vs dropping out of the purchase (the odds generally favour the latter) so spending time advising/quoting for work they will never get is wasted time.

The thing which rings alarm bells for me is that if the builder didn't get the fire protection right and this work was done without the proper oversight of BC then what else might not be Ok?  A surveyor can only comment on what they can see, and there may be hidden defects you don't yet know about.

Dannygee22

Thanks. Agreed with all of that. I think the ceiling would need to be done too. It is odd as the planning permission is all fully in line, and they seem to have been very organised there, but then when it comes to this small extra work of partitioning the garage, they are much less so. The surveyor did comment on the high quality of the majority of the property, so I'm not sure what's happened here. The garage now houses a bio mass boiler which is apparently what the vendor does for a living, so it's pretty concerning these things could have been missed.

 I am waiting to hear back from the surveyor who has been very helpful. Really appreciate your response on this.

eddddy

When was the extension built?

Are you buying with a mortgage, and if so, has the mortgage valuer done their valuation, and do you have a mortgage offer? Did the valuer raise the question of building regs?

If the mortgage valuer raises the issue of building regs, the mortgage lender is likely to want indemnity insurance. If the extension is recent, it will be harder to get indemnity insurance.

Bobbityboo

Have you asked the seller why it wasn’t done?  Can you speak to the contractor that did the actual work and see if they will do it?  

TroubledTarts

If you are willing to pull out just because of this perhaps this is not the house you are looking for.

If you want a discount ask for it so you can sort it out once moved in

Section62

Bobbityboo said:

Have you asked the seller why it wasn’t done?  Can you speak to the contractor that did the actual work and see if they will do it?  

The last thing I'd want to do is to use the same contractor who did such a bad job in the first place.

Dannygee22

Thanks all. I don't want to pull out, we love the house, it is just making us very nervous. Fire safety is obviously a big deal. The mortgage valuer did not raise it as an issue, and we have just got the mortgage offer today.

 I'm going to meet with the vendor next week and discuss proposed solutions. I'd rather not reduce the price and ask for the work to be done beforehand, I think it will be a pretty simple fix.

oz0707

I'd be surprised If you can't find someone to do these works on completion of purchase. It's a relatively small job and sounds pretty straightforward. Providing you're not having to get independent UKAS certification (which i'm sure you wont) and just building regs sign off then any competent contractor could do it. Photos as progress of any places inaccessible once boarded (of foam or mastic round service penetrations).

In terms of fire safety it's minimal depending what you choose to store

Bobbityboo

Section62 said:

Bobbityboo said:

Have you asked the seller why it wasn’t done?  Can you speak to the contractor that did the actual work and see if they will do it?  

The last thing I'd want to do is to use the same contractor who did such a bad job in the first place.

Second question is connected to the first…. If the seller didn’t want it done properly or the contractor took issue with the seller for some reason.  So the second part wasn’t stand alone.  You didn’t make it clear it was the contractors fault the work wasn’t done properly.  Not surprised other contractors don’t want to take on this kind of work.  

Also if the contractor didn’t finish the work properly why hasn’t the seller already sorted this?  They just have known it was wrong.  Hence I wondered if your seller is the issue.  Seller must have paid for the work to be done properly. 

Section62

Bobbityboo said:

Section62 said:

Bobbityboo said:

Have you asked the seller why it wasn’t done?  Can you speak to the contractor that did the actual work and see if they will do it?  

The last thing I'd want to do is to use the same contractor who did such a bad job in the first place.

Second question is connected to the first…. If the seller didn’t want it done properly or the contractor took issue with the seller for some reason.  So the second part wasn’t stand alone.  You didn’t make it clear it was the contractors fault the work wasn’t done properly.  Not surprised other contractors don’t want to take on this kind of work.  

Also if the contractor didn’t finish the work properly why hasn’t the seller already sorted this?  They just have known it was wrong.  Hence I wondered if your seller is the issue.  Seller must have paid for the work to be done properly. 

...I'm not the OP.

The usual in this kind of situation is a client who doesn't know the regulations and a contractor happy to take shortcuts to save some money them and the client.  Occasionally a client knows what is required but tells the contractor not to bother doing whatever it is.

The way I see it the contractor has much of the blame either way - knowingly doing construction work which potentially puts people's lives at risk, or not knowing the rules on reducing the spread of smoke and fire amounts to much the same, not a contractor I'd have any faith in whatsoever.

As I said upthread, the difficulty the OP will have getting quotes before they move in is likely to be the uncertainty whether the contractor being asked to quote will ever have the job to do.  Either the current owner needs to get quotes, or the OP waits until they complete before knowing what it will cost them.