Proposed driving disqual. - Extreme Hardship argument

Okell

Brie said:

fyi - 6 pts + 6 pts = Ban - Details... — MoneySavingExpert Forum

So phone and then insurance.  

EH case was discussed last May.

@proformance -  so what was the outcome of this ^ last year?

Unless you were found not guilty of the insurance charge last June (or the court decided not to endorse your licence) you must be on 12 points already.  Unfortunately you never came back to report what happened.

If you made a successful plea of exceptional hardship last June, be aware that you will need a different basis for the plea this second time.

Or are you a different person from the one posting last May, but using the same username?

Or is this the same case?

Grumpy_chap

I find it hard to see that an Exceptional Hardship plea would be accepted here.  Many people, including the elderly, infirm and immobile (though the OP's Father may well be none of these) are able to make hospital appointments without access to a car or family member who can give them a lift.  Hospital transport, public transport, Council / charity transport, taxi, UBER, etc.

I also always assumed that the points system was operated as a bit of a warning and the intention is that if an individual accrues sufficient points to be within one-offence reach of further points resulting in a ban, the whole idea was that the individual modified their behaviour so driving (and maintaining their vehicle) like an angel.

MikeJXE

That seems to be the problem here 

Reoffenders need to learn there is a punishment and the way to avoid that is don’t do it again 

TooManyPoints

Reoffenders need to learn there is a punishment and the way to avoid that is don’t do it again 

Whilst that perfectly true, there is a facility provided in statute to argue "exceptional hardship" to avoid a "totting up" ban.

I personally do not agree it should exist. To fall foul of totting up a driver must commit at least two and more usually four offences and he has adequate notice to comply with the law. It is not available for single offences which attract a mandatory or discretionary disqualification (where the driver does not have the luxury of that notice) so I don't see why it should exist for totting up.

But it does and whilst it does we should do our best to help posters who are faced with that problem. By the time they face a ban the deeds are done 

SiliconChip

TooManyPoints said:

Reoffenders need to learn there is a punishment and the way to avoid that is don’t do it again 

But it does and whilst it does we should do our best to help posters who are faced with that problem. By the time they face a ban the deeds are done 

Why do you think we should help someone in that situation? They've committed the offences that have led to the prospect of a ban, and unless they make a compelling case to us (which hasn't happened so far in this instance) as to why they shouldn't be banned I for one don't feel any need at all to offer help of any sort, I'd rather see people who blatantly disregard the law off the road for a while. Perhaps your username suggests that you may at some point have been one of those people, and that's given you some sympathy for the OP's predicament, but I don't think that'll apply to too may people on here.

MikeJXE

SiliconChip said:

TooManyPoints said:

Reoffenders need to learn there is a punishment and the way to avoid that is don’t do it again 

But it does and whilst it does we should do our best to help posters who are faced with that problem. By the time they face a ban the deeds are done 

Why do you think we should help someone in that situation? They've committed the offences that have led to the prospect of a ban, and unless they make a compelling case to us (which hasn't happened so far in this instance) as to why they shouldn't be banned I for one don't feel any need at all to offer help of any sort, I'd rather see people who blatantly disregard the law off the road for a while. Perhaps your username suggests that you may at some point have been one of those people, and that's given you some sympathy for the OP's predicament, but I don't think that'll apply to too may people on here.

I second that and so would so many who have been a victim who have lost a family member of a speeding/on the phone/ uninsured motorist 

They should be taken off the road so we can all be safer not helped to find a way to avoid the punishment 

sheramber

proformance said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

The court is going to want evidence that there aren't alternative methods of transport available to him for these treatments, such as dial-a-ride or public transport or hospital-arranged transport.

I would be surprised if that would be a good enough reason,  as many people who don't drive get to hospital appointments.

I struggle to think of a more compelling reason than hospital appointments....

If he solely depends on you to take him , the time to think about that was before you did something to incur points/ a driving ban.

You could pay for a taxi since you will not be able to take him. 

TooManyPoints

Why do you think we should help someone in that situation? 

Because I believe (though I might be wrong) that the purpose of his forum is to help people with their motoring problems. There are plenty of places they can post if they just want criticism or an argument. I would suggest this is not one of them.

The OP did not ask for views on how compelling his argument would be. Nobody on here would know which way a court would find his argument. Some of us may have more of an idea than others, but that’s not what he asked for. He asked for what amounts to advice on procedural issues surrounding it.

They should be taken off the road so we can all be safer not helped to find a way to avoid the punishment

Whether you like it or not (and as I’ve made clear, I don’t) they have a way – enshrined in legislation – that enables them to do just that. I happen to have a reasonable amount of knowledge of motoring legislation, police and court procedures.  I’m quite happy to share that knowledge with people who ask for advice. Yes, I’d rather drivers didn’t speed. But many do. 

I for one don't feel any need at all to offer help of any sort,

Then just don’t. It’s not compulsory! If you feel the law is unjust then lobby your MP for a change. 

sheramber

TooManyPoints said:

Why do you think we should help someone in that situation? 

Because I believe (though I might be wrong) that the purpose of his forum is to help people with their motoring problems. There are plenty of places they can post if they just want criticism or an argument. I would suggest this is not one of them.

The OP did not ask for views on how compelling his argument would be. Nobody on here would know which way a court would find his argument. Some of us may have more of an idea than others, but that’s not what he asked for. He asked for what amounts to advice on procedural issues surrounding it.

They should be taken off the road so we can all be safer not helped to find a way to avoid the punishment

Whether you like it or not (and as I’ve made clear, I don’t) they have a way – enshrined in legislation – that enables them to do just that. I happen to have a reasonable amount of knowledge of motoring legislation, police and court procedures.  I’m quite happy to share that knowledge with people who ask for advice. Yes, I’d rather drivers didn’t speed. But many do. 

I for one don't feel any need at all to offer help of any sort,

Then just don’t. It’s not compulsory! If you feel the law is unjust then lobby your MP for a change. 

The OP did not ask for views on how compelling his argument would be. 

He did ask

Out of curiosity what in your view would constitute "Extreme Hardship"?

Herzlos

It definitely sounds like he's fishing for an argument that would count as extreme hardship in order to avoid a ban, rather than genuinely being concerned that the ban will have an adverse impact on the father regarding hospital appointments.

I may be somewhat pessimistic though. The unwillingness to provide any details doesn't really help either.