Understanding storage heaters.

SpikeyKitten

Hi guys,

I am renting a new flat and it's heated by the dreaded storage heaters. I'm trying to get my head around how they work so I can maximise their efficiency. I understand the basics: they charge up on the Economy 7 cheaper night rate and let it out in the day etc etc.

What I really want to know though is, do they charge up every night regardless of how much heat they've released during the day? Not sure if that makes sense. But mine are slightly more modern heaters than the traditional two manual dials for input/output. These have little screens with menus. You can set each heater to individual temperatures and program them to 'come on' (let out heat) at various times of the day. But my thinking is, if they charge all night regardless, then why would you not have them going at maximum temperature? 

Or in other words: will using them at lower temperatures actually save any money?

Also, I don't know if they take a while to get going after being turned off for months. But today is the first day of using them after turning the system on yesterday so should have charged overnight. They were warm (not hot) this morning on a 6-8am program, but when they came on at 5pm for their evening program I can barely detect a luke-warm current of air from them (they have fans). 

Storage heaters - loved by landlords, hated by tenants... and funnily enough, nobody who owns their own home ever chooses to install them 

QrizB

SpikeyKitten said:

What I really want to know though is, do they charge up every night regardless of how much heat they've released during the day?
Or in other words: will using them at lower temperatures actually save any money?

Even the simplest storage heaters have an internal thermostat. Charging stops once a hey reach that set temperature.

Slightly more complicated ones let you adjust the set temperature.

Clever ones (and it sounds like you have clever ones) adjust their target internal temperature automatically based on the room temperature and the output profile you set.

So yes, setting a lower temperature will mean less charging and lower bills.

SpikeyKitten said:

Also, I don't know if they take a while to get going after being turned off for months.

Smart storage heaters can take a day or two to learn how much heat to store, in order to supply the desired amount of heat. See if they're better tomorrow.

SpikeyKitten said:

Storage heaters - loved by landlords, hated by tenants... and funnily enough, nobody who owns their own home ever chooses to install them 

Storage heaters are expensive. Bad (or thoughtless) landlords would much rather fit cheap panel heaters.
And some homeowners without easy access to mains gas do choose storage heaters, although heat pumps are becoming more popular.

Scot_39

Is there a reason you arent willing to name the brand / model ?

(It's not always easy to find - sometimes under lid next to dials / programmer, sometimes more hidden etc. 

My model nos on a tiny little bit of silver tape type label - about 1/2"x 1.5" - stuck on the rear wall frame at top LHS on two of mine - not the cream coloured top / frame - and bottom of RHS on third - luckily the previous owenr kept the 4 page booklet user guide - but that itself covered 3 different models 0 so needed the label info.)

If you find the make / model - we can probably advise you on specifics - as likely someone here will be using the same model.

The problem is there are several intermediate stages of operating modes - in terms of the old output - some replaced that with thermostatic not simple timed from last charge etc, others added fans, secondary (live mains heaters) and old model input controls (with top spec models learning the energy usage and adjusting charge)

The modern ones are far more set and forget - the old ones need constant adjustment - as the weather changes - some even tweak the output control daily.

The new ones to some extent - in terms of controllability - but not running cost - are in some respects better than a simple GCH setup with only one room thermostate - i.e. one without seperate TRVs in most rooms - and offer zoned temperature control of your whole house / flat.

If they have programmable electronic modiule - they may indeed be fairly recent models - with such thermostat control - they may be lot 20 or even HHR (high heat retention - so lose less of the charged heat - until its demanded from user program ) with fan assist to heat faster.

The best modern types even adapt their charge so they aren't holding excessive heat hidden behind the insulation - they actually monitor how much energy used and so required from the previous days use.  So in mild winter will learn to only say take 1/2 charge - but as cools will wind that up as needed - and then back down as warms - either day to day or month to month.

That means unlike older types - they wont just heat up (normally to the old input dial setting) and let the heat out from there on - possibly progressively over time - with some sort of active air flow vent control.

I actually have been living with old manual dial electric - once you learn how to use them - they arent as bad as many fear.  Provided you dont want to radically change the temperature profile in the house during the day.

The problem is they arent room temperature driven - but core temperature driven - more modern ones are room/air.

So I have to look a day ahead and adapt my settings - or one day my rooms might be at 16C - but a few days later if the outside temp swings up 5C - at the same input setting - my room might be 19C. Or 18C one day and 15C the next etc if cooling rapidly.  And those swings happen surprisingly frequently.

And even then the old air flow vent passive circulation boost can provide a noticeable boost in the late afternoon evening if preferred.

One month last year I made 16 adjustment settings across some or all 3 of my NSH - from all 3 on high - to all 3 off and in between - at low to medium input settings.

It's a faff and guesswork initially - but you get used to it.

But I do sometime wish I'd installed the Quantums - it's just the payback on cost was literally 20+ years at pre-crisis cost as a low user - based on use of cheaper E7 rates than my E10 tariff gives me.

mmmmikey

SpikeyKitten said:

Hi guys,

I am renting a new flat and it's heated by the dreaded storage heaters. I'm trying to get my head around how they work so I can maximise their efficiency. I understand the basics: they charge up on the Economy 7 cheaper night rate and let it out in the day etc etc.

What I really want to know though is, do they charge up every night regardless of how much heat they've released during the day? Not sure if that makes sense. But mine are slightly more modern heaters than the traditional two manual dials for input/output. These have little screens with menus. You can set each heater to individual temperatures and program them to 'come on' (let out heat) at various times of the day. But my thinking is, if they charge all night regardless, then why would you not have them going at maximum temperature? 

Or in other words: will using them at lower temperatures actually save any money?

Also, I don't know if they take a while to get going after being turned off for months. But today is the first day of using them after turning the system on yesterday so should have charged overnight. They were warm (not hot) this morning on a 6-8am program, but when they came on at 5pm for their evening program I can barely detect a luke-warm current of air from them (they have fans). 

Storage heaters - loved by landlords, hated by tenants... and funnily enough, nobody who owns their own home ever chooses to install them 

Hi, I'm a home owner who chose to install my own I would agree that they take a bit of getting your head around though.

Think of them being like a bucket of heat. One tap fills the bucket up overnight. Another tap let's the bucket empty during the day (and depending how good the bucket is it will also leak a bit). If you only use half a bucket full during the day, you'll only need half a bucket to fill it up again, but if you empty the bucket you'll need a full bucket. So the more heat you let out the more it costs you.

(Apologies if this is a bit simplistic but it's the best way I can think of explaining it)

If you know the model of storage heaters you have then someone should be able to give you some hints and tips on how best to use them. Mine are Elnur HHR heaters which are fairly common and I can help you with those. If it's another type I'm sure someone else will be able to help.

SpikeyKitten

Thanks guys.

Sorry, I didn't think to include the make/model. They're Dimplex Quantums. Loads of 'em! 

This all wasn't helped by an utterly confusing conversation with my energy supplier (British Gas) who seemed to be saying that there was no such thing as Economy 7. Unless you have an EV (Electric Vehicle) charger. And that they just use the one reading (as opposed to having to give a day/night reading.

After panicking for a bit thinking that my night rate was the same as my day rate, I concluded that it must've been a case of 'lost in translation' (the British Gas representative I spoke too didn't speak English too well...). I think what he meant was that they don't do Economy 7 specific tariffs and that they just add the day reading to the night reading to get one total reading. I hope that's what he meant anyway. Also, he couldn't tell me when the off peak hours were exactly but directed (deflected) me to the website, where (but of course) no such information was available...

QrizB

SpikeyKitten said:

After panicking for a bit thinking that my night rate was the same as my day rate, I concluded that it must've been a case of 'lost in translation'

If you've had a bill (or if you have a smart meter with a working in-home display) you should be able to see your tariff details.

And there are things you can check visually, by looking at the meter itself.

Does your meter have two registers, one each for day and night? Is it a smart meter? And is it wired with a separate night-only circuit, either from a fifth terminal or with a thin wire that controls an external contactor?

Share a photo of you're unsure.

There's a lot more variation in E7 (and similar) tariffs than there are in single-rate ones. You might be able to save a useful amount by switching.

Snug Octopus, for example, is cheaper for most people:

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

SpikeyKitten

QrizB said:

SpikeyKitten said:

After panicking for a bit thinking that my night rate was the same as my day rate, I concluded that it must've been a case of 'lost in translation'

If you've had a bill (or if you have a smart meter with a working in-home display) you should be able to see your tariff details.

And there are things you can check visually, by looking at the meter itself.

Does your meter have two registers, one each for day and night? Is it a smart meter? And is it wired with a separate night-only circuit, either from a fifth terminal or with a thin wire that controls an external contactor?

Share a photo of you're unsure.

There's a lot more variation in E7 (and similar) tariffs than there are in single-rate ones. You might be able to save a useful amount by switching.

Snug Octopus, for example, is cheaper for most people:

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

Thank you.

I've not yet had my first bill as I've not long moved in. I can see online how much I'm paying though and what tariff I'm on. I definitely have two readings that cycle through: 1,2 and T, or Total from memory. It's outside so I'll check tomorrow. I've also just noticed that there's a seperate fusebox/breakers for the Storage Heaters. All the switches were down which would explain why I'm not getting any heat out of them, though I could've sworn it was warm this morning before I went to work...

My god it's all so confusing!

SpikeyKitten

mmmmikey said:

SpikeyKitten said:

Hi guys,

I am renting a new flat and it's heated by the dreaded storage heaters. I'm trying to get my head around how they work so I can maximise their efficiency. I understand the basics: they charge up on the Economy 7 cheaper night rate and let it out in the day etc etc.

What I really want to know though is, do they charge up every night regardless of how much heat they've released during the day? Not sure if that makes sense. But mine are slightly more modern heaters than the traditional two manual dials for input/output. These have little screens with menus. You can set each heater to individual temperatures and program them to 'come on' (let out heat) at various times of the day. But my thinking is, if they charge all night regardless, then why would you not have them going at maximum temperature? 

Or in other words: will using them at lower temperatures actually save any money?

Also, I don't know if they take a while to get going after being turned off for months. But today is the first day of using them after turning the system on yesterday so should have charged overnight. They were warm (not hot) this morning on a 6-8am program, but when they came on at 5pm for their evening program I can barely detect a luke-warm current of air from them (they have fans). 

Storage heaters - loved by landlords, hated by tenants... and funnily enough, nobody who owns their own home ever chooses to install them 

Hi, I'm a home owner who chose to install my own I would agree that they take a bit of getting your head around though.

Think of them being like a bucket of heat. One tap fills the bucket up overnight. Another tap let's the bucket empty during the day (and depending how good the bucket is it will also leak a bit). If you only use half a bucket full during the day, you'll only need half a bucket to fill it up again, but if you empty the bucket you'll need a full bucket. So the more heat you let out the more it costs you.

(Apologies if this is a bit simplistic but it's the best way I can think of explaining it)

If you know the model of storage heaters you have then someone should be able to give you some hints and tips on how best to use them. Mine are Elnur HHR heaters which are fairly common and I can help you with those. If it's another type I'm sure someone else will be able to help.

Hi,

Reassuring you chose to install your own . Perhaps they're not as bad as people make out. I remember having them in an old draughty Victorian flat. It also had no extraction in either the bathroom or the kitchen, so you'd open the windows after a shower or cooking, and all the heat would escape with the moisture. They cost a fortune and it was never warm.

Your bucket analogy makes perfect sense, thanks! I was just worried you have to pay to fill the bucket every night even if the bucket is already full, just because the tap is on.

tamste

If you have a contactor box then this switches the heaters on when the E7 kicks in so they only charge on E7, though as they are Quantums, I believe they have an element that tops up during the day if needed. Take readings on two days to see how much they are using on off peak and peak to confirm the contactors are working correctly and charging your heaters overnight.

I have Elnurs (a combination of HHR and SSH) which have "balancing elements" to give extra heat in the day if they run out of charge. The charging is automated and takes the previous days use into account, so they don't often take a full charge, but most days its enough to get through without using peak rate electricity from the balancing elements. I understand that Quantums use a similar system, and if so, it will take a few days for them to settle in and make the right calculations on the charge to apply overnight.

Also suggest you check which tariff you are on as you certainly need E7 with storage heaters, otherwise they can be very expensive to run.

RedFraggle

Quantum will only charge if they're set to heat a property as the intelligently make sure they store enough heat for the next day, based on how much heat was used the previous day. This means they don't automatically charge every night. In spring and autumn mine charge every other or every third day.
When they've been off in the summer mine take a couple of days to work it out.

I'd suggest looking up the manual online.

I'm a huge fan and prefer my all electric flat to gch.

How is your water heated? To avoid a large bill you'll likely need to get your head round that too.

Stubod

There are a series of You tube vids that are worth a look, and make things easier to understand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImFAPhASICU&list=PLeu8n3AX7aM8fKluhw7rEvXisDffxWwO5