Purchasing a new home with electric heaters

Ectophile

A handy site for comparing different fuel prices is https://www.nottenergy.com/advice-and-tools/project-energy-cost-comparison

Scot_39

hrm1987 said:

Hi there,

I am looking to purchase a period property and have come up against an EPC with an F rating (there appear to be 2 recent EPCs and the agent has shared the better one which is a concern in itself, but still F). The house has double glazing, loft insulation, energy efficient bulbs and a log burner. It also, however, has solid walls (assumed) and a Fischer heating system and immersion heater. There’s no gas as it’s a rural property.

I am a complete novice to this, though my mum has storage heaters (just been sold a new system through Fischer which I am trying to get her to rethink within he 14 day cooling off period - another story) so I know a little about. Her house is cold.

What are my realistic options? Will the log burner keep me warm, will it be really expensive, should I consider internal wall insulation, or is a heat pump or installing oil an option? 

I love the house and I love period properties, so I fear this kind of thing could be an issue anywhere. I just want to know if it’s possible to overcome, if I should be negotiating on price, and if this should be a big red flag? 

It seems a minefield out there and you read about grants but then heat source pumps being expensive and still inefficient. Same with solar for massive initial outlays. 

Thanks in advance for any guidance - I realise there’s a lot in there with the Fischer issue and everything else.

Fischer - if you mean Fischer Future Heat UK Ltd - or related companies - assuming you are talking about the same company / devices - were being taken to court by Leicester Trading Standards a few years ago.

I'd be checking what your mum's rights are right now - and how best those will - or will not suit her - and impact her bills.

Local news

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/fraud-aggressive-sales-allegations-dropped-7649427

the actual document they had to sign - the list of the promises made to avoid the court action

https://www.leicester.gov.uk/media/wwtpatcj/signed-undertakings-2022.pdf

Qyburn

lohr500 said:

However, I found a possibly meaningless statistic that says the typical annual heat usage for an average UK house is around 8100 kWh. This excludes energy used to heat water. Let's use that figure for now.

The EPC will give a estimated kWh/year for space heating. However just speaking for our property the figure is around 50% more than we actually use.

The wind turbine recommendation is farcical even by EPC standards, I've seen that recommended even for a house in a valley surrounded by adult trees, or where there are close neighbours.

EssexHebridean

The estimated heat use on the EPC for our flat was out to a factor of 7. We actually complained about such a huge inaccuracy, and while we never got the EPC redone we were at least never charged for it. How many buyers it put off however we will of course never know! 

hrm1987

Yes the current estimate is extortionate so we need to get some actual usage costs. Is that a conveyancer or not?

I have a second viewing on the house with the estate agent. Not sure whether to tell him this system is going to need replacing, as I don’t think it’ll push the price down and I’m not a great barterer! 

hrm1987

lohr500 said:

In the new house, every kWh of heat you get from the Fisher heaters will cost you around 25p. The actual cost will vary depending on region and supplier, but 25p is around the national standard variable tariff rate.

We don't know the size of the house, how many Fisher panels, their output or your preference on how warm you like the house to be, so there are lots of variables.

However, I found a possibly meaningless statistic that says the typical annual heat usage for an average UK house is around 8100 kWh. This excludes energy used to heat water. Let's use that figure for now.

The fisher panels would cost you 8100 x 25p = £2025 per annum.

A well set up heat pump running at 3.5:1 efficiency would cost you 8100/3.5 x 25p = £579 per annum.

An oil based system with a boiler running at 90% efficiency would cost you 8100/0.9 x (65p/10.35) = £565 per annum. A litre of oil is currently 65p and each litre of oil is 10.35kWh.

So if you did use 8100kWh a year on heating, every year with the electric panels would cost you around £1500 more than the heat pump or oil alternatives. 

In an older house with higher heat loss, the usage could well be higher!! 

Even if it cost £10k to install a heat pump system, which is £2500 after the grant, it would pay for itself in less than 2 years!!! And sooner if your heat requirements were higher.

Several well respected forumites have already replied above, and i would welcome their thoughts on using 8100kWh as a typical heat requirement and my calculations as I would not want to mislead you.. 

On the wind turbine front, I would say forget it. Small scale turbines are very expensive and everything I have read about them says stay well clear!!

This is really helpful, thank you. It seems to difficult to find whether I would actually be eligible for a grant is the only thing - seems to be income based as well as EPC based.

lohr500

The £7500 heat pump grant is not income based and only requires the existance of an EPC. The EPC rating doesn't affect the grant.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-boiler-upgrade-scheme/check-if-youre-eligible

hrm1987

Great, thank you. In terms of getting people to come and look and quote, is there somewhere reputable to look? There’s so much out there that it’s hard to know who is a cowboy! The property is in North Yorkshire.

QrizB

hrm1987 said:

Great, thank you. In terms of getting people to come and look and quote, is there somewhere reputable to look? There’s so much out there that it’s hard to know who is a cowboy! The property is in North Yorkshire.

Try your energy company for a quote. I know that Octopus, BG and EDF all have heat pump schemes; the others might do too.

EssexHebridean

You may as well mention to the agent that the heating system is a wildly expensive to run one and that the need to replace it with something economical - and the cost of that replacement -  is currently making you question whether you need to look at a different property...they may then hint to you whether a reduced price offer might be well received.