Ebay Payment Provider Dispute

stanhopemotors

Nearly 4 months ago sold a shower on ebay, sold as new other as box was tatty, brand new item though, private seller

Seller messaged yesterday stating was fitted yesterday and it's leaking from the seals.
States was renovating so didn't fit till now.
I kinda politely stated it was nearly 4 months since the sale and not a lot I could do really, had it been in the first month fair enough I would have took it back, but 4 MONTHS!!!

So today received payment provider dispute, guess she paid via paypal/credit card.

I disputed this straight away, called eBay too. They state it has nothing to do with them and its upto payment provider to decide outcome.
I have read a few threads stating that you never generally win and you end up losing the item as well as the money.

Now eBay is getting worse day by day for sellers, everybody recognises that.
Not sure how seller protection works though, is it suppose to step in and help sellers in scenarios like this?
Surely I shouldn't be liable for an item not working after 4 months???

Also, I'm getting to the point of taking people to small claims just for the sake of all sellers out there, if we win a few, may be people will think twice about scamming sellers so much
(Not saying this person is a scammer, she may be genuine, no way of knowing)

Short essay over!!!

RFW

stanhopemotors said:

Nearly 4 months ago sold a shower on ebay, sold as new other as box was tatty, brand new item though, private seller

Seller messaged yesterday stating was fitted yesterday and it's leaking from the seals.
States was renovating so didn't fit till now.
I kinda politely stated it was nearly 4 months since the sale and not a lot I could do really, had it been in the first month fair enough I would have took it back, but 4 MONTHS!!!

So today received payment provider dispute, guess she paid via paypal/credit card.

I disputed this straight away, called eBay too. They state it has nothing to do with them and its upto payment provider to decide outcome.
I have read a few threads stating that you never generally win and you end up losing the item as well as the money.

Now eBay is getting worse day by day for sellers, everybody recognises that.
Not sure how seller protection works though, is it suppose to step in and help sellers in scenarios like this?
Surely I shouldn't be liable for an item not working after 4 months???

Also, I'm getting to the point of taking people to small claims just for the sake of all sellers out there, if we win a few, may be people will think twice about scamming sellers so much
(Not saying this person is a scammer, she may be genuine, no way of knowing)

Short essay over!!!

I wouldn't say everybody, most sellers don't have problems. Whatever the sale circumstances, a new shower should be expected to be working four months after purchase. Obviously there's caveat emptor for buying in a tatty box from a private seller but put yourself as the buyer and you may think differently.

It sounds like you run into a lot of problems so I'd probably be wondering why. I can't see how you'd win in a small claims with this buyer, even if they did win a case and keep the shower. Also worth noting that small claims cost money and, even if successful, it's not always a guarantee that you'll ever see any money, especially if you're dealing with a real scammer.

stanhopemotors

RFW said:

stanhopemotors said:

Nearly 4 months ago sold a shower on ebay, sold as new other as box was tatty, brand new item though, private seller

Seller messaged yesterday stating was fitted yesterday and it's leaking from the seals.
States was renovating so didn't fit till now.
I kinda politely stated it was nearly 4 months since the sale and not a lot I could do really, had it been in the first month fair enough I would have took it back, but 4 MONTHS!!!

So today received payment provider dispute, guess she paid via paypal/credit card.

I disputed this straight away, called eBay too. They state it has nothing to do with them and its upto payment provider to decide outcome.
I have read a few threads stating that you never generally win and you end up losing the item as well as the money.

Now eBay is getting worse day by day for sellers, everybody recognises that.
Not sure how seller protection works though, is it suppose to step in and help sellers in scenarios like this?
Surely I shouldn't be liable for an item not working after 4 months???

Also, I'm getting to the point of taking people to small claims just for the sake of all sellers out there, if we win a few, may be people will think twice about scamming sellers so much
(Not saying this person is a scammer, she may be genuine, no way of knowing)

Short essay over!!!

I wouldn't say everybody, most sellers don't have problems. Whatever the sale circumstances, a new shower should be expected to be working four months after purchase. Obviously there's caveat emptor for buying in a tatty box from a private seller but put yourself as the buyer and you may think differently.

It sounds like you run into a lot of problems so I'd probably be wondering why. I can't see how you'd win in a small claims with this buyer, even if they did win a case and keep the shower. Also worth noting that small claims cost money and, even if successful, it's not always a guarantee that you'll ever see any money, especially if you're dealing with a real scammer.

I don't have a lot of problems, only ever had 2 previous returns from over 900 items, one where the guy never read the description in full and I was forced by ebay to accept the return, the 2nd being my fault for not measuring item correctly. 
I was trying to point towards the endless stories on such forums about nightmares people have with buyers and ebay.

Also I get what your saying about a 4 month old shower, but how do I know its been fitted correctly? Not abused? An electric surge? Could be any manner of things.

I'm not fussed about the cost of small claims court, more the principal of the matter

soolin

Assuming this is managed payments then you should be covered. However you need to be very proactive with ebay as they often overlook their own rules. For a start, buyer didn't pay you, they paid ebay, and ebay mustn't forget that as managed payments is their scheme.

Handling payment disputes | eBay

Item doesn't match the listing or Item was damaged when received or Item received had missing parts

• A clear photo showing the item is as described and its condition pre-postage

the policy is woolly, but screen shot your photos and listing straight away and submit those photos to ebay

Then further on it explains where ebay take the hit

If the dispute is found in the buyer's favour, they’ll receive a refund. Whether you're charged for the refund and whether you have to pay a dispute fee depends on whether you're eligible for our payment dispute seller protections.

THis is the important bit - so you need to respond officially and keep reminding ebay about the seller protection policy

Payment dispute seller protections | eBay

For a seller to be eligible for payment dispute seller protections:

• The transaction must meet the requirements specified in this policy
• The seller must respond to the payment dispute and take action within the required time frames
• If challenging the payment dispute, the seller must provide the required evidence
• The seller may not be in violation of the User Agreement

eBay may automatically apply seller protections to a dispute without requiring the seller to respond or take action on the dispute. If we apply the protections automatically, we won't charge a dispute fee or seek reimbursement from the seller if the dispute is resolved with a full refund to the buyer.

Be proactive, make a note of the relevant policies before you phone ebay- and keep uploading proof to the dispute.

RFW

stanhopemotors said:

I don't have a lot of problems, only ever had 2 previous returns from over 900 items, one where the guy never read the description in full and I was forced by ebay to accept the return, the 2nd being my fault for not measuring item correctly. 
I was trying to point towards the endless stories on such forums about nightmares people have with buyers and ebay.

Also I get what your saying about a 4 month old shower, but how do I know its been fitted correctly? Not abused? An electric surge? Could be any manner of things.

I'm not fussed about the cost of small claims court, more the principal of the matter

There are lots of stories but the majority of transactions are fine. Sometimes it's sellers not knowing the rules or thinking they can get away with something.

On the shower, you're right you have no idea if it was fitted right, or anything else, there's always a risk in selling, unfortunately.

On the small claims court it should never be about anything but the money, judges don't judge on principles.

It looks like Soolin has given you some good advice on seller protection, so hope that goes well following that.

j_netprofit

If the buyer had bought this from almost any high street retailer he would have been told to jog on. This is so unjust. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

j_netprofit said:

If the buyer had bought this from almost any high street retailer he would have been told to jog on. This is so unjust. 

They would have been told so incorrectly, a purchase from a trader is covered by the CRA and the customer would have recourse.

With a private sale (which I assume the OP was), cover by legislation is much more limited, from what I understand just the goods are as described and the seller must have title. AFAIK the SOGA applies which has the concept of acceptance (which the CRA doesn't). 

OP I think you are going to have a hard time with a card dispute and SNAD. From reading on the consumer rights forum retailers can defend chargebacks although with exactly what is unclear. 

As Soolin says eBay does have a policy on this but I believe it will come down to what the card provider decides based on the information given. 

soolin said:

THis is the important bit - so you need to respond officially and keep reminding ebay about the seller protection policy

Payment dispute seller protections | eBay

For a seller to be eligible for payment dispute seller protections:

• The transaction must meet the requirements specified in this policy
• The seller must respond to the payment dispute and take action within the required time frames
• If challenging the payment dispute, the seller must provide the required evidence
• The seller may not be in violation of the User Agreement

eBay may automatically apply seller protections to a dispute without requiring the seller to respond or take action on the dispute. If we apply the protections automatically, we won't charge a dispute fee or seek reimbursement from the seller if the dispute is resolved with a full refund to the buyer.

The important bit for SNAD is listed further down the page

When determining whether to protect a seller, eBay will look for one of the following:

• The seller issued a full refund to the buyer through eBay
• The seller issued a refund to the buyer through eBay, but deducted an amount from the refund because the item was returned used or damaged (in accordance with our guidelines
• An eBay Money Back Guarantee case of the same type for the same transaction that was already resolved with:
• eBay determining that the seller met their obligations to the buyer, or
• eBay issuing a full refund to the buyer

They aren't offering to cover any seller who uploads a photo of the item as evidence, they are merely offering cover if the seller has already refunded or eBay already deemed the seller wasn't responsible via the MBG  

j_netprofit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

j_netprofit said:

If the buyer had bought this from almost any high street retailer he would have been told to jog on. This is so unjust. 

OP I think you are going to have a hard time with a card dispute and SNAD. From reading on the consumer rights forum retailers can defend chargebacks although with exactly what is unclear. 

But won't this require the seller to action the refund? Asking because I'm in a similar situation, also a thread on here. What if they just don't refund?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

j_netprofit said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

j_netprofit said:

If the buyer had bought this from almost any high street retailer he would have been told to jog on. This is so unjust. 

OP I think you are going to have a hard time with a card dispute and SNAD. From reading on the consumer rights forum retailers can defend chargebacks although with exactly what is unclear. 

But won't this require the seller to action the refund? Asking because I'm in a similar situation, also a thread on here. What if they just don't refund?

Sorry not sure who you mean by "they", the seller?

If so, likely eBay will take the funds from the seller + the £16 odd dispute fee but I think by the time the dispute is opened that is what's going to happen unless the buyer has already been refunded or the buyer lost a MBG case.

Above is only for SNAD, you have a chance of winning an INR dispute with tracking. 

j_netprofit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

j_netprofit said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

j_netprofit said:

If the buyer had bought this from almost any high street retailer he would have been told to jog on. This is so unjust. 

OP I think you are going to have a hard time with a card dispute and SNAD. From reading on the consumer rights forum retailers can defend chargebacks although with exactly what is unclear. 

But won't this require the seller to action the refund? Asking because I'm in a similar situation, also a thread on here. What if they just don't refund?

Sorry not sure who you mean by "they", the seller?

If so, likely eBay will take the funds from the seller + the £16 odd dispute fee but I think by the time the dispute is opened that is what's going to happen unless the buyer has already been refunded or the buyer lost a MBG case.

Above is only for SNAD, you have a chance of winning an INR dispute with tracking. 

 Yes sorry, I did mean the seller. How would/can eBay take the funds from the seller if the seller is unwilling to pay up?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

j_netprofit said:

 Yes sorry, I did mean the seller. How would/can eBay take the funds from the seller if the seller is unwilling to pay up?

I see If the account doesn't have any funds I believe eBay will try the payment methods on file for seller fees, if no joy they'll suspend the account, usually gets passed to debt collectors who chase but not heard of eBay actually taking any sellers to court to force a judgement.