Huge Thames water bill rises 2025/2026 50% + for some

MattMattMattUK

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Rateable customers tend to waste water, so I can see why they want to push people to metered usage. 

In 2023 it was reported Thames Water loses 600,000,000 litres of water a day through leaks in it's network. 

Something about stones and glass houses if Thames are worried about their customer wasting water! 

Two wrongs do not make a right though. 

The rational position would be to move to compulsory metering for all, along with far stricter rules for the suppliers and if that means that they are insolvent then bring them into a GovCo.

grumpypensioner

I have just received by TW bill, an increase from £676 to £935. I was going to have a good moan until read the comments above, thank you all for showing that I am not alone in my frustration. We have lived in our semidetached 3 bedroom for 60 years, band E with a TW RV of 278, it has a shared water connection so any meter would have to be inserted in the airing cupboard. I care for my wife of 60 years who has Parkinson's and no longer garden in the enjoyable sense, so our water usage is fixed and we don't want the influx of potentially infectious workmen tinkering with something that has worked for so long. Sorry, I have had a good moan after all.
I guess the response, get a water meter fitted. When I registered as vulnerable I was flooded by TW requesting visits by "infectious" people but luckily I have a call blocker (get several scam calls per day - numbers recorded) and good junk mail so they did not get through directly, none offered actual help. I know I am burying my head in the sand but we will probably be dead or somewhere else in a few years, so my wife's attendance allowance will be used to contribute towards TW's bonuses meantime. My point? I have not been able to find out why they allowed such a steep rise, nor argue how it was calculated; and we are distressed over the harassment with no logic of real help. Apologies to all, I feel better now. I wish someone else could help. A futile world you will all have to fight.

grumpypensioner

I add the obvious to my above comment.
At no time did TW advise any action that would reduce my bill, they only urged me to have a meter fitted.
The current published rates for water per m3 do not reflect the increases in non metered accounts, thus the calculation sites for meter estimations are probably incorrect and are too low. So I can not compare.
I only believe that TW wish to maximise their income, a factor which excludes offers of real help.
I conclude that such large increases in conventional bills are designed to encourage metering, but their resultant inherent installation costs must be born by customers, a contradiction of reducing costs and therefore bills. 
A logical business planning - but where is Ofwat I ask?

MattMattMattUK

grumpypensioner said:

I add the obvious to my above comment.
At no time did TW advise any action that would reduce my bill, they only urged me to have a meter fitted.
The current published rates for water per m3 do not reflect the increases in non metered accounts, thus the calculation sites for meter estimations are probably incorrect and are too low. So I can not compare.

You can use the usage estimation from the comparison sites and multiply them by the new unit rates if you want to do that, a very simple calculation to make.

grumpypensioner said:

I only believe that TW wish to maximise their income, a factor which excludes offers of real help.

You can choose to believe whatever you want, but whilst they might want to be able to charge more per litre, what they can charge is set by the regulator and not Thames Water. What help do you think they should be offering you exactly?

grumpypensioner said:

I conclude that such large increases in conventional bills are designed to encourage metering, but their resultant inherent installation costs must be born by customers, a contradiction of reducing costs and therefore bills. 

That is not your conclusion, that is the published aim of both Thames Water and Ofwat, the ultimate aim is to have everyone on a water meter. The installation costs of the meter is added to the water bill of everyone, but there is no charge for having a meter fitted. The individual can reduce their personal costs by reducing usage, it puts them in control of their costs, at least within certain limits. 

grumpypensioner said:

A logical business planning - but where is Ofwat I ask?

Ofwat is setting the rules, Ofwat have got a lot wrong, they have been hugely limited by lack of a full mandate in what they can control (no oversight of borrowing or leveraging), but the installation of water meters is not an area that they have fail in, apart from not making water meters compulsory for all properties. 

grumpypensioner

Thank you Matt for your response, I detect a corporate undertone.
In the irony of life, TW arrived this morning to fit a meter for my adjoining neighbour (also called Matt?), turning off our joint supply without notice just as I was getting my wife up. So much for logging in as a vulnerable customer! It was quickly turned back on again when the engineer found that he could not install the meter due to the plumbing arrangement of our houses! So that decides the question of having a meter for the moment.

For the record my annual bills have been, hence my concern:
2021 £530
2022 £543
2023 £605
2024 £677
2025 £935 - a 38% increase, did Ofwat really sanction this?
An estimate of a water meter bill is 130 M3 at £2.6164 per m3 giving £340 plus standing charge of £208 annually, a considerable reduction of £387. For 2025 anyway.
And help? To know how future bills will increase (and why) so that I can accommodate, and how to negotiate.

I query the probability logic of meters. I guess that the cost of meter, installation and support to be in around £2k. There are perhaps three reasons for installation; encouraging the reduction of customer usage, detecting internal water leaks and enabling customer control of bills. However there must be a fourth, that is to be able to recover the initial costs plus, as that should be the obvious "business plan". Thus the meter is promoted to the customer as a savings device in all senses, an "expectation" promotion; cynically perhaps the converse has greater truth with time. Their problem - to catch the usage abuser. 

The other central logic of having meters, that everyone should pay for what they use in life is valid. It is just the monopolistic mechanism of a supplier without correct central government control that galls.

So what to do without devoting hours on the phone, I weary at the thought.

brook_heather

grumpypensioner said:

I guess that the cost of meter, installation and support to be in around £2k. 

More like less than £200 per meter - TW are paying £50m for 650,000 meters including support (£76 per meter) - not sure if this includes installation as this is done by TW engineers so in total maybe £150 each?

https://www.thameswater.co.uk/news/million-plus-smart-meters-coming-to-thames-water-region

MattMattMattUK

grumpypensioner said:

Thank you Matt for your response, I detect a corporate undertone.

No, you do not. 

grumpypensioner said:

In the irony of life, TW arrived this morning to fit a meter for my adjoining neighbour (also called Matt?), turning off our joint supply without notice just as I was getting my wife up. So much for logging in as a vulnerable customer! It was quickly turned back on again when the engineer found that he could not install the meter due to the plumbing arrangement of our houses! So that decides the question of having a meter for the moment.

At least temporarily yes, however you can ask to go onto an assessed charge which is cheaper than rateable, unless you have quite a few more people living in the property than you have bedrooms. I suspect that they engineer was unaware it would cut your supply off, though I believe that short term disruptions are allowable regardless. 

grumpypensioner said:

For the record my annual bills have been, hence my concern:
2021 £530
2022 £543
2023 £605
2024 £677
2025 £935 - a 38% increase, did Ofwat really sanction this?

They did, because they want people off rateable and onto metered.

grumpypensioner said:

An estimate of a water meter bill is 130 M3 at £2.6164 per m3 giving £340 plus standing charge of £208 annually, a considerable reduction of £387. For 2025 anyway.

Keep pushing for a water meter, in the mean time request to be moved to assessed charges, it will be somewhere in the middle between the two, so still saving a few hundred a year.

grumpypensioner said:

And help? To know how future bills will increase (and why) so that I can accommodate, and how to negotiate.

The why, together with a projection of how for the next five years is available on the Ofwat website, though it does somewhat depend on the current court cases. There is no negotiating. 

grumpypensioner said:

I query the probability logic of meters. I guess that the cost of meter, installation and support to be in around £2k. There are perhaps three reasons for installation; encouraging the reduction of customer usage, detecting internal water leaks and enabling customer control of bills. However there must be a fourth, that is to be able to recover the initial costs plus, as that should be the obvious "business plan". Thus the meter is promoted to the customer as a savings device in all senses, an "expectation" promotion; cynically perhaps the converse has greater truth with time. Their problem - to catch the usage abuser.

As BH points out your guess is out by at least a factor of ten. People on water meters are generally more conscientious, taps not left running, shorter showers, the allow leak detection, they make water charging proportional to usage.

grumpypensioner said:

The other central logic of having meters, that everyone should pay for what they use in life is valid. It is just the monopolistic mechanism of a supplier without correct central government control that galls.

Define "correct central government control". The reality is that over the last forty years we have significantly underpaid for our water and chronically underinvested, that issue has been exacerbated by privatisation especially the business model of Thames Water, but much like food, energy and taxes, the costs have been too low for too long and we urgently need to pay catch up, with most of the cost put onto our children and grandchildren. 

grumpypensioner said:

So what to do without devoting hours on the phone, I weary at the thought.

State you want a water meter as soon as one is available, in the mean time get yourself put on the assessed charge system which is available to people when a water meter cannot be fitted. 

WillowLea1962

I just looked at the 25/26 charges pdf compared to 24/25 and the increase for metered supply seems to be:
Annual fixed charge was Supply £29.14 now £63.96 and Waste was £83.78 now £154.80
Supply usage was £1.9145 increased to £2.4743 and
Waste was £1.1537 up to £1.5480 (all per m3)

these result in my bills likely going up by about £172 or in %age a 43% increase. When I first did the comparison I assumed I had picked the wrong numbers. But everyone makes the same point. Why is this not being made more of a big deal by the media?  This will be a huge inflationary impact surely?

QrizB

WillowLea1962 said:

Why is this not being made more of a big deal by the media?  This will be a huge inflationary impact surely?

There have been stories in the media. However the media has spent the past decade (and then some) complaining about underinvestment in water infrastructure. It would be hypocritical to now complain too much about bills going up to fund that same investment.

And no, the effect on inflation will be small because water bills are a small part of household expenditure.

grumpypensioner

Thank you all for responding. It is rewarding to receive such a wide spectrum of comment. 
To Matt, maybe not corporate but having an astute reflection.

I do not mind paying for such a vital service. My objection is to the obfuscation TW transmit in doing so.

Under investment is probably, misuse of available funds more so.

Installation of meters must be costly, think of call out and labour charges (three hours to fit) by the TW engineer, the hardware, the backup computer system maintenance and local ongoing mast charges. Of course I use the cost of my helper, gardener, garage, broadband/phone etc, to help estimate costs. Think, and do not just read statements. Do you really think my estimates are out by so much? All cost must be recovered by TW through their bills, they seek to increase their returns, period. If not now then later.

My energy bills are in XS of £5k to keep my wife comfortable, so the water bills are comparable. 

My grouse is, (what do you all call it now?) to question the misinformation bubble that causes people to not reason  the logic of the statement you read. Put yourself in the position of CEO of TW who had out stepped their role, and interpret their comments. Be cynical and think. And comment.