PIP MR

rarasarr23

I have just had my PIP Reassessment. I have been awarded Enhanced for both Daily Living and Mobility. This was done via a paper based assessment and evidence I submitted.

I have a copy of my PA3.

There are problems with the Daily Living Activities or points awarded.

My last PIP reassessment in 2021, for the Planning and Following a Journey, section I got 4 points, Descriptor B.

Originally the HCP awarded 0 points for Planning and Following a Journey in 2021 (telephone assessment) and I requested tribunal when it was not changed at MR by the DWP.

The DWP then changed their mind before tribunal and awarded me 4 points, based on the autism report, I submitted with the MR, and so I went from Standard to Enhanced.

I was also given 8 points and Descriptor C 'Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres' for the Moving Around section, by the HCP in 2021.

Nothing has changed in terms of Planning and Following a Journey, if anything I go out less and less due to psychological distress, especially on unfamiliar journeys. At the same time I do make a familiar journey most days to see a family member, although this is with great difficulty, but it’s more of case of having to do it, rather than wanting to do it.

This family member lives a short less than 1 mile drive away. As an another example, I turned down a property 9 miles away last year, because I knew, I would be unable to undertake such a lengthy journey daily, twice a day (return journey) and this was after waiting more than six years to move someone more suitable.

My walking ability and pain has significantly increased, and there has been some new diagnosis to deal with since my assessment in 2021.

My latest PIP reassessment has now awarded me PIP for just over two years, but again I have been given 0 points for Planning and Following a Journey, I want to appeal this.

Evidence used by the HCP, is the PA4, from 2021, which of course was ignored by the DWP when they awarded me the 4 points at a later date, plus what I wrote on my AR1, which was ‘no change.’ I also submitted additional information giving an example of my difficulties going out, and this was also touched upon during a call from the HCP (not a planned call) when I also emphasised how difficult it had been over the last year to attend hospital appointments, some distance from where I live. I gave examples of how I had, cancelled appointments due to not being able to leave the house, as well as how I had asked the hospital I am under the try and scheduled tests and scans at my local hospital a short drive away. I even mentioned how despite the potential diagnosis, I had thought of forgoing further tests, just because it is so distressing travelling to this hospital so far away. I have no support from anyone, the family member mentioned is housebound, and my friends are not local.

I have not been able to attend a hospital appointment out of town via my car, only by taxi. It would be impossible for me to navigate to a different hospital due to distance, plus the distress on trying to find the place, plus trying to park etc.

However... Doing an MR...

I have been awarded the Enhanced Rate of Mobility this time, having now been given 12 Points for Descriptor E, 'Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.'

I feel this is incorrect, and that Descriptor D, 'Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metre' is more applicable, which is 10 points. I wrote on the AR1 no change, but this was back in 2023, it's taken 15 months for the paper based assessment, during which time, things got worse in terms of pain, mobility, fatigue and breathlessness.

What do I do?

Should I challenge both Descriptors. I think the HCP has made a mistake giving me 12 points for Moving Around, and hope the MR goes in my favour, so I still get the enhanced rate, or do nothing, but the latter option puts me in a difficult position, because I can walk more than 20 meters, aided or unaided on flat surfaces, I do experience pain and fatigue when walking all the time, but can do it, with stops and rest.

I also want to appeal the length of the award, as I feel a 3 or 5 year award is more appropriate, as there is evidence these conditions are ongoing, unlikely to improve, cannot be treated (due to overdose risk) I was previously on DLA for more than 10 years for the same conditions, so this proves they are long-term.

In terms of background history, I have both a strong history of mental health issues, repeated overdoses, self-harm, hospital admissions, sectioning, and being removed from the wrong side of a bridge, admittedly more often than not when I pass a bridge when driving, I want to jump off. I also have multiple physical issues, which include chronic pain. I was also diagnosed with autism in 2022, in my 40s, this diagnosis meant that suddenly everything regarding my mental health made sense, particularly the frequent overdoses often triggered by sensory overload.

The only reason I am still here, is because of the housebound family member, if they were not here, I would not be here, and last year there were safeguarding issues around this and my mental health.

rarasarr23

rarasarr23 said:

I have just had my PIP Reassessment. I have been awarded Enhanced for both Daily Living and Mobility. This was done via a paper based assessment and evidence I submitted.

I have a copy of my PA3.

There are problems with the Daily Living Activities or points awarded.

That should say there are no problems.

Spoonie_Turtle

Sorry I couldn't get through all of your post (brain fog) but you say you've been awarded enhanced for both parts.  So you cannot get an increased award, it's not possible.  What are you hoping to gain from an MR?

rarasarr23

The points have been awarded incorrectly, too many points for the Moving Around (Mobility) and no points for Planning and Following a Journey.

Plus I want to ask for a longer award.

If I am having to go through this every two years I want things to be correct as it makes it easier for future reassessments.

Plus I genuinely do not think I should get 13 points for Moving Around, it should be 10. If I don’t challenge it they could do me for fraud!

born_again

if you are looking at getting the term extended, there is a member here who did that, not sure who, but hopefully they will pick the thread up 👍

It is pointless doing a MR on just the Descriptor that you got the required points on, suggesting it should be another. End of the day you got the points required.

rarasarr23

rarasarr23 said:

The points have been awarded incorrectly, too many points for the Moving Around (Mobility) and no points for Planning and Following a Journey.

Plus I want to ask for a longer award.

If I am having to go through this every two years I want things to be correct as it makes it easier for future reassessments.

Plus I genuinely do not think I should get 13 points for Moving Around, it should be 10. If I don’t challenge it they could do me for fraud!

Ahhh 12 points for Moving Around not 13…

marcia_

rarasarr23 said:

The points have been awarded incorrectly, too many points for the Moving Around (Mobility) and no points for Planning and Following a Journey.

Plus I want to ask for a longer award.

If I am having to go through this every two years I want things to be correct as it makes it easier for future reassessments.

Plus I genuinely do not think I should get 13 points for Moving Around, it should be 10. If I don’t challenge it they could do me for fraud!

 That wont happen. You answered the questions correctly they made their decision perhaps in error. They then cant blame you as you have the evidence if their assessment and decision 

Muttleythefrog

I understand your reasoning for wanting to challenge and get the descriptors corrected. Most members here will advise you not the challenge a decision that you can't materially improve.... but you also raise prognosis (award length) you want to have looked at. 

My quick advice without forensic reading of above.. I may come back..
I'd be tempted to challenge the length of award ONLY... and use your next re-assessment to argue for the correct descriptors. This strategy worked for me... eventually over reassessments I've ended up shifting them to the correct descriptors even though it never changed award level. And on prognosis I was not happy with the length of last award.. another member above seems to refer to me regarding that... so I link what I said in my reconsideration request that was successful in substantially increasing the length of award. It might give some pointers as to the kind of factors that could be raised to persuade a decision maker at the DWP... of course every case is different and you may have better... in fact you have the maximum award which I do not.. that could aid argument of no likely future improvement... as absolutely could "I was previously on DLA for more than 10 years for the same conditions"
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80639476/#Comment_80639476

Spoonie_Turtle

rarasarr23 said:

The points have been awarded incorrectly, too many points for the Moving Around (Mobility) and no points for Planning and Following a Journey.

Plus I want to ask for a longer award.

If I am having to go through this every two years I want things to be correct as it makes it easier for future reassessments.

Plus I genuinely do not think I should get 13 points for Moving Around, it should be 10. If I don’t challenge it they could do me for fraud!

The length of award, that makes sense and can certainly be challenged.

You are saying you should score for planning and following a journey - at minimum that would be 4.  Add that to the 10 you reckon you should score for Moving around and you'd score a total of 14 for the mobility element.  Which still entitles you to the enhanced award anyway, so no fraud there.

It's ultimately up to you what you do but if you did want to do an MR for the length without touching the descriptors scored, the way to do that with telling the truth and not saying you agree with the descriptors would be to say you agree with the level of award (which refers to enhanced Daily Living and Mobility elements) and then detail why you think it should be longer.

You could open up a whole can of worms if you say it needs to be longer but your walking ability has increased - because if it's increased then they can use that as a reason to keep it a short award reasoning that they need to review you again fairly soon in case it's got even better by then.
Conscience and telling the truth wise, if it does get better but you'd still be entitled to enhanced because of the planning and following journeys, you wouldn't need to let them know until/unless it got so much better that combined with planning and following journeys you no longer qualified for enhanced mobility.

And in terms of future awards, if you need to do an MR to get the appropriate level, you can always mention that you didn't pursue getting the right scoring for planning and following journeys previously because it would have made no material difference to your award.  That's the key phrase - material difference, i.e. affecting the level awarded.

rarasarr23

Muttleythefrog said:

I understand your reasoning for wanting to challenge and get the descriptors corrected. Most members here will advise you not the challenge a decision that you can't materially improve.... but you also raise prognosis (award length) you want to have looked at. 

My quick advice without forensic reading of above.. I may come back..
I'd be tempted to challenge the length of award ONLY... and use your next re-assessment to argue for the correct descriptors. This strategy worked for me... eventually over reassessments I've ended up shifting them to the correct descriptors even though it never changed award level. And on prognosis I was not happy with the length of last award.. another member above seems to refer to me regarding that... so I link what I said in my reconsideration request that was successful in substantially increasing the length of award. It might give some pointers as to the kind of factors that could be raised to persuade a decision maker at the DWP... 

Thank you for sharing this as it’s really helpful. I also had the I have awarded you PIP for a longer period, wording… they have not!

I’ve read the thread you link and will use the pointers for my own MR. I think I will stick with solely questioning the length of the award.

rarasarr23

marcia_ said:

rarasarr23 said:

The points have been awarded incorrectly, too many points for the Moving Around (Mobility) and no points for Planning and Following a Journey.

Plus I want to ask for a longer award.

If I am having to go through this every two years I want things to be correct as it makes it easier for future reassessments.

Plus I genuinely do not think I should get 13 points for Moving Around, it should be 10. If I don’t challenge it they could do me for fraud!

 That wont happen. You answered the questions correctly they made their decision perhaps in error. They then cant blame you as you have the evidence if their assessment and decision 

I think this is correct. I never exaggerated my walking ability, and on my AR1 I explicitly said I could walk between 20 and 50 meters. At times I use an aid, others times I don’t, it depends on pain and where / what I am doing.

The DWP have clearly made their decision on what was written, and evidence provided, I guess I should be happy with that. I know deep down my walking ability will never improve, so I should not worry, just can’t help it.