Multiple PCN's from National Parking Control, in a Hire Car

StJohn81

Hi all thanks for the forum and all the advice in the Newbies section.

I can see some advice for hire car issues but it talks only of receiving tickets in the window.
The tickets I have been sent (4 in total!) have been posted to me, as the car was detected by video camera.

It's a car park I've used for years just to buy shopping from tesco there.
All of  sudden they have changed it to video camera and a different payment method and signs which all of us residents were unaware of.
Its purely coincidence that I happened to be in a hire car, because my car was in for repair during this period of a few weeks.

I've gone in multiple times for short stays without knowing the changes, and receiving all this mail with the PCN's and fines.

Offences were 8th, 22nd, and 24th Nov. Date letters sent were 8th, 9th and 9th Jan. My partner got the other one and paid a reduced fee. 

I've made some notes from the newbies section but still a bit unclear on my first step, with a hire car involved (company have told them I was the driver), whether to appeal before 21 days or leave it like some guidance says.

I'm planning to complain to tesco over the weekend also.

Thanks for any help

Coupon-mad

Appeal x 3 online, using the Edna Basher hirer appeal. It's not for windscreen PCNs.

Do not say who was driving.  The lease/hire firm has not named you as driver! They have no idea why was driving & nor do NPM. Keep it that way.

You could then try IAS x3 (as hirer) just for the LOLs and because NPC might not contest some or all of the appeals because they all cost them a fee.  Also, it is important because your appeal hooks all three PCNs firmly away from the hire firm.

You could also quote the Oct 2024 CoP clause about the need for extra signs when rules or obligations for parking change.

Go & get some photos of dark corners and non-prominent entrance/warning signs (no close-ups) to prove the LACK of extra alerting signage (about a change of terms) when you go in to complain in person.

Even if Tesco don't cancel these, you won't ever pay them and all complaints are GOOD.  Retail Managers need to be bombarded with motorists' anger about 'scam' parking regimes on their land.

Nellymoser

We so badly need protected from this greedy nasty industry. Please join the motorists in demanding the re-launch of Govt-backed Parking Code of Practice.

A simple signature, share if you can. 🙏

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701453

StJohn81

Coupon-mad said:

Appeal x 3 online, using the Edna Basher hirer appeal. It's not for windscreen PCNs.

Do not say who was driving.  The lease/hire firm has not named you as driver! They have no idea why was driving & nor do NPM. Keep it that way.

You could then try IAS x3 (as hirer) just for the LOLs and because NPM might not contest some or all of the appeals because they all cost them a fee.  Also, it is important because your appeal hooks all three PCNs firmly away from the hire firm.

You could also quote the Oct 2024 CoP clause about the need for extra signs when rules or obligations for parking change.

Go & get some photos of dark corners and non-prominent entrance/warning signs (no close-ups) to prove the LACK of extra alerting signage (about a change of terms) when you go in to complain in person.

Even if Tesco don't cancel these, you won't ever pay them and all complaints are GOOD.  Retail Managers need to be bombarded with motorists' anger about 'scam' parking regimes on their land.

Thank you for your help. I'll get cracking. Incidentally, complaints to tesco, staffed generally with youngsters, no managers in sight, are those complaints best done verbally or in writing? My concern is handing in a letter to the un-enthused youngster and it not reaching the manager, and maybe 'getting lost somewhere'.

LDast

Why not go as high as possible up the management food chain and let the top dog have one of his minions handle it?

ken.murphy@uk.tesco.com

StJohn81

Coupon-mad said:

Appeal x 3 online, using the Edna Basher hirer appeal. It's not for windscreen PCNs.

Do not say who was driving.  The lease/hire firm has not named you as driver! They have no idea why was driving & nor do NPM. Keep it that way.

You could then try IAS x3 (as hirer) just for the LOLs and because NPM might not contest some or all of the appeals because they all cost them a fee.  Also, it is important because your appeal hooks all three PCNs firmly away from the hire firm.

You could also quote the Oct 2024 CoP clause about the need for extra signs when rules or obligations for parking change.

Go & get some photos of dark corners and non-prominent entrance/warning signs (no close-ups) to prove the LACK of extra alerting signage (about a change of terms) when you go in to complain in person.

Even if Tesco don't cancel these, you won't ever pay them and all complaints are GOOD.  Retail Managers need to be bombarded with motorists' anger about 'scam' parking regimes on their land.

Actually they have addressed it to me, in my name. So the hire car company have given my details. How does this affect how I appeal? And in the appeal sections you can only progress by putting name details in the boxes with asterisks

Coupon-mad

It doesn't change my advice.

I already knew they'd named you and I said so. Did you miss the nuance? I've bolded it now:

"The lease/hire firm has not named you as driver! They have no idea why was driving & nor do NPC. Keep it that way."

Obviously you have to put your details in to appeal...of course...

StJohn81

Coupon-mad said:

It doesn't change my advice.

I already knew they'd named you and I said so. Did you miss the nuance? I've bolded it now:

"The lease/hire firm has not named you as driver! They have no idea why was driving & nor do NPM. Keep it that way."

Obviously you have to put your details in to appeal...!

Thanks Ok I get your meaning: even though they've put my name on the letter they still don't know who was driving. But I still put my details in to appeal

StJohn81

For the record, this was my appeal for all three:

I ticket the box 'I was not aware I incurred the charge'
I put my name and address in the asterisk fields (hesitantly!
I added some photos, all of which were expansive of the space and show no visibility of signs, from POV of driver.
And then in the appeal content:
(I added the last two paragraphs to the template by Edna Basher)

Dear Sir,

Parking Charge Notice **********: Vehicle Registration ********

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by National Parking Control (NPC) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I was its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why NPC's Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Further, you should be familiar with the Oct 2024 CoP clause about the need for extra signs when rules or obligations for parking change.

Given that NPC has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Please also see attached photos for further appeal item which is the wholly inappropriate and unnoticeable signage, not clear from any of these points. All photos taken at eye level and perspective of driver.

It should also be added that the nature of changes to this car park system in Myrtle Parade, Liverpool, which is not legible to longstanding customers of the shops contained there, and the resulting flurry of £100 fines of which there was no knowledge until the one was delivered, is deemed malicious and predatory.

Coupon-mad

NPC aren't subject to POPLA if they are an IPC AOS member. But you were right to appeal to hook it away from the lease firm.

StJohn81

Coupon-mad said:

NPC aren't subject to POPLA if they are an IPC AOS member. But you were right to appeal to hook it away from the lease firm.

Thanks. When you said use one of the 3 Edna Basher appeals I assumed all would be applicable. Which of the three do you think is best in this case? And also if that was not the correct appeal how will this affect the process?