Would you ever buy a flat where wall/roof insulation was done recently?

alwaysquestioning

I’m considering buying a flat in a victorian converted house (just two flats in total). The seller recently added wall insulation (inside and outside) in order to improve EPC, which on paper sounds great, but I can’t shake the feeling they might have done it to cover up other issues.  I’m stressed I’ll only find out about hidden problems once I move in.
How can I be sure the insulation was done properly? Is there any kind of guarantee or certification I can ask for that will cover my @ss?

I’d love to hear from people with more experience, do you think it’s better to avoid flats like this?

Also, they’ve installed a heat recovery system in the loft. How can I make sure it’s been installed correctly and tested before committing to the purchase?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 🙏

tacpot12

There should be some design documentation for the  heat recover system. You could ask to see this, and ask a expert to review it. However, systems are not always installed as per the design, and it is not easy to check whether this is the case. If an experienced contractor has installed the system, then you could have more faith in it, so ask who the installer was. 

The wall insulation is a bigger risk if not done correctly. again you could ask for the name of the installer and any design details that the seller has. If the installer hasn't already provided an insurance-backed guarantee, then you probably won't be able to get one - who else would guarantee the work? However, if you have a real sense that they are covering things up, I would walk away from the purchase. Your gut instinct can be quite accurate!

Albermarle

Not very encouraging reading....
'Serious and systemic' problems found in insulated homes, minister says - BBC News

ic

If somebody wants to cover up a problem, there's cheaper ways of doing that than installing internal and external insulation, and a heat recovery system.  Examples would be cladding, re-rendering, or inside lining paper, or simply positioning furniture to hide problems.

I presume you'll be getting a full survey done, and that should highlight any problems - you can even tell them it is a concern for you.

twopenny

The EPC doesn't make a lot of difference to selling a house unless there's a reason for it. And inside and out and something in the loft?

People buy old properties because they love them, not because they are heat efficient.

So I think you are right in wondering why he would do this.

It's going to pray on your mind from now on so I would look for somewhere else however lovely this is.

ThisIsWeird

alwaysquestioning said:I’m considering buying a flat in a victorian converted house (just two flats in total). The seller recently added wall insulation (inside and outside) in order to improve EPC, which on paper sounds great, but I can’t shake the feeling they might have done it to cover up other issues.  I’m stressed I’ll only find out about hidden problems once I move in.

How can I be sure the insulation was done properly? Is there any kind of guarantee or certification I can ask for that will cover my @ss?I’d love to hear from people with more experience, do you think it’s better to avoid flats like this?Also, they’ve installed a heat recovery system in the loft. How can I make sure it’s been installed correctly and tested before committing to the purchase?Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 🙏

Due diligence. Find out what type of insulation was used inside and out - does it suit a Victorian property?
As said above, this won't have been cheap, so I think it would be weird to have used this as a method to 'conceal' anything. If you have rising or penetrating damp you want to hide, then just tank the inside walls, and replaster - cheap, and leave the problem for another owner!
Ditto with the 'heat recovery system' - I presume you mean a higher-end PIV system? The main purpose is to provide controlled ventilation to keep a property fresh and dry. The HRS part is useful but secondary to this, and is used to recoup heat and save energy. Again, generally considered a good thing to have, very effective, and not cheap to install.
Put both things together, and we are talking about a pretty sizeable outlay, but one that should be very effective and worthwhile over the medium and longer term. It should keep the flat fresh and dry, and save a ton of energy costs.
My initial approach to this property would therefore be very positive, whilst carrying out the proper checks about the products used. 

alwaysquestioning

ThisIsWeird said:

alwaysquestioning said:I’m considering buying a flat in a victorian converted house (just two flats in total). The seller recently added wall insulation (inside and outside) in order to improve EPC, which on paper sounds great, but I can’t shake the feeling they might have done it to cover up other issues.  I’m stressed I’ll only find out about hidden problems once I move in.

How can I be sure the insulation was done properly? Is there any kind of guarantee or certification I can ask for that will cover my @ss?I’d love to hear from people with more experience, do you think it’s better to avoid flats like this?Also, they’ve installed a heat recovery system in the loft. How can I make sure it’s been installed correctly and tested before committing to the purchase?Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 🙏

Due diligence. Find out what type of insulation was used inside and out - does it suit a Victorian property?
As said above, this won't have been cheap, so I think it would be weird to have used this as a method to 'conceal' anything. If you have rising or penetrating damp you want to hide, then just tank the inside walls, and replaster - cheap, and leave the problem for another owner!
Ditto with the 'heat recovery system' - I presume you mean a higher-end PIV system? The main purpose is to provide controlled ventilation to keep a property fresh and dry. The HRS part is useful but secondary to this, and is used to recoup heat and save energy. Again, generally considered a good thing to have, very effective, and not cheap to install.
Put both things together, and we are talking about a pretty sizeable outlay, but one that should be very effective and worthwhile over the medium and longer term. It should keep the flat fresh and dry, and save a ton of energy costs.
My initial approach to this property would therefore be very positive, whilst carrying out the proper checks about the products used. 

Thank you for your reply. They added a 50mm external Rockwool Dual Density Slab to the exterior walls of the original building. I'm not entirely sure about the internal walls, but when I knock on them, they sound like plasterboard, which makes me suspect there might also be insulation inside. I need to confirm if the internal walls are insulated and, if so, what material was used.

The note from the agents mentions a "Mechanical Heat Recovery System (MHRS)" being fitted, and during my survey, I noticed a machine in the loft. I need to find out the name of the machine, who installed it, and whether it’s still under warranty.

Would you happen to know which type of specialist I should contact to inspect the insulation work and confirm whether it was done properly? Additionally, I’d like to check that the MHRS is functioning correctly to prevent damp, mold, or other issues.

Doozergirl

It's MVHR.  Mechanical ventilation with heat recovery.   I have one.  It cost us £6,500 without VAT to fit in our brand new build with before inflation went wild. 

Whoever owns this property wasn't messing around and they've considered the balance between insulation and ventilation, and they've gone over and above a standard retrofit project with MVHR You don't put one of those things in unless you've done a fair old bit of homework. 

To keep them happy, you just service them once a year and change the filters fairly regularly.  We have a man, I can share details, but they probably already have one.  

There is evidently a fair bit of ignorance about around retrofit.   If the vendors have had this done then you can ask them about the whys and wherefors to see what they know and understand.  

But I work with people now who do an amazing job of retrofitting older properties.  There's a world of difference between the fly by night companies who set up purely to take advantage of government grant schemes - and your honest, quality builder taking a whole house approach to retrofit.   

I absolutely agree with the previous poster who said this is in no way the sign of a cheap cover up.  There's some serious money gone into making this place energy efficient, so the evidence would suggest the opposite.  Yes, I'd want to do a bit of due diligence, but I'd be delighted.  

The world is a different place now.  

Flo87

The only cheaper part it`s they`ve managed to sort 2 things in the same time: possible damp and insulation. 
As it`s an Victorian house 99% it`s a solid wall build with lime based mortar, due to age and possible botched jobs done by previous owners( with or without knowledge) the chances are that was needed a full repointing and a replastering inside; and the tradesman that know how to work with lime and their schedule it`s limited it was chosen the cheaper and quicker option but done correctly( with rockwool and the adequate ventilation)

alwaysquestioning

Doozergirl said:

It's MVHR.  Mechanical ventilation with heat recovery.   I have one.  It cost us £6,500 without VAT to fit in our brand new build with before inflation went wild. 

Whoever owns this property wasn't messing around and they've considered the balance between insulation and ventilation, and they've gone over and above a standard retrofit project with MVHR You don't put one of those things in unless you've done a fair old bit of homework. 

To keep them happy, you just service them once a year and change the filters fairly regularly.  We have a man, I can share details, but they probably already have one.  

There is evidently a fair bit of ignorance about around retrofit.   If the vendors have had this done then you can ask them about the whys and wherefors to see what they know and understand.  

But I work with people now who do an amazing job of retrofitting older properties.  There's a world of difference between the fly by night companies who set up purely to take advantage of government grant schemes - and your honest, quality builder taking a whole house approach to retrofit.   

I absolutely agree with the previous poster who said this is in no way the sign of a cheap cover up.  There's some serious money gone into making this place energy efficient, so the evidence would suggest the opposite.  Yes, I'd want to do a bit of due diligence, but I'd be delighted.  

The world is a different place now.  

@Doozergirl thanks for your reply.

could I ask which MVHR model you have? I’ve asked my solicitor to request details about the MVHR system.

Also, how much do you pay annually for servicing and filter replacement? Just trying to get a rough idea.

Have you noticed any improvements in your energy bills? 

moreover, do you know if there is a way to adjust the temperature of the cold air being pushed out by the MVHR system?  I’ve come across posts where people are complaining about the rooms feeling too cold because of this.

Doozergirl

We have a Vent Axia, no idea what model.  Costs £400ish to service and filter I think, can't remember. Could be less.  

MVHR does not push out cold air.  It takes warm, stale air from the property.  Then it takes cold, fresh air from outside and puts it through a heat exchanger, bringing *fresh, warm* air back into the property.  

There is more than one element in a house that affects bills. We moved from a 1930s house that was half the size and our new gas bill was less than half the price at the time but it's a different build with much less insulation, so comparing apples with oranges.  Of course it will be better. 

You're not having to buy the MVHR - would I prefer a house with one than without?  Definitely.  Would I prefer someone else to have paid for it?  Even more definitely. Especially as it likely comes with other measures than similar houses will lack.   

It's one of the last of a series of measures - you don't stick one into any leaky old home and expect it to work.  They're expensive and they're done as part of a holistic strategy to keep the house low carbon.