Speed enforced before sign

Hoenir

Megdrim said:

The gantry show 50 . Guys PLEASE look carefully on pictures. They took my speed BEFORE gantry . You can see me and that other guy breaking lights on. When I pass the gantry I was 50. I had seen that camera flashing non stop whe I was in my way to Manchester, lorries,cars all of them are guilty???

The order in which the pictures are presented is irrelevant. They simply provide the evidence that the mandatory speed limit wasn't being adhered too. 

Megdrim

laidbackgjr said:

Megdrim said:

The gantry show 50 . Guys PLEASE look carefully on pictures. They took my speed BEFORE gantry . You can see me and that other guy breaking lights on. When I pass the gantry I was 50. I had seen that camera flashing non stop whe I was in my way to Manchester, lorries,cars all of them are guilty???

The picture of your car before the gantry is to show that the 50 MPH limit was in force.

The pictures showing your car being measured at 72MPH were taken after the gantry.

If you look carefull on picture ''after'' you will see in left corner that gantry showing 50. I was there today to investigate and i WAS RIGHT first two pictures its before gantry and that whit our cars passing gantry its the last one

Megdrim

TooManyPoints said:

They took my speed BEFORE gantry 

You are mistaken. You have three photographs. The top two are taken beyond the gantry (where your speed was measured) and show your car together with the data (place, time, speed, limit, etc.). The camera which took them is sited adjacent to the the gantry, facing the direction of travel to show, as you can see, the vehicles' rear, It cannot capture an image of your car until after it has passed the gantry. The bottom one is taken at the same time but by a separate camera sited before the gantry. Its purpose is to show the gantry display at the time you passed it. The two cars in that photo appear to have already passed the gantry or at least be very close to it. However, it doesn't matter because their speed is not measured until a short distance beyond it. If they are showing brake lights it indicates they had not reduced their speed to the displayed limit before reaching the point it began.

Provided you do not already have nine points or more, 72mph in a 50 limit should see you offered a fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points). If you want to dispute the charge you must decline (or ignore) that offer. You will then be prosecuted in court and will have to plead not guilty.

The police will produce their evidence to show that your speed was measured by an approved device and will also produce evidence to show the reduced limit. The device is assumed to be working correctly unless it can be shown to be defective. That will be your job in court. 

The cost of failure is high. If you are convicted you will pay a  fine of a week's net income, a surcharge of 40% of that fine and prosecution costs which will be around £650. If your income is £500pw it will cosy you £1,350 or thereabouts. You will also see between four and six points imposed on your record, probably five or six. 

Im not that short memory . That camera flash 200 meters before gantry and that its the point where our speed was measured. At the point where i pass the Speed sign i had 50 on speedo that means 48 real. no more. Ok you tell me im at fault lets try different ......all cars passing that point had only blind drivers and no one reduced speed. When i pass that point coming from liverpool that camera was flashing at everything moving so those drivers was blaints as well. Its not too much????

Megdrim

laidbackgjr said:

Megdrim said:

The gantry show 50 . Guys PLEASE look carefully on pictures. They took my speed BEFORE gantry . You can see me and that other guy breaking lights on. When I pass the gantry I was 50. I had seen that camera flashing non stop whe I was in my way to Manchester, lorries,cars all of them are guilty???

The picture of your car before the gantry is to show that the 50 MPH limit was in force.

The pictures showing your car being measured at 72MPH were taken after the gantry.

Wrong . Was taken before i was there today and i filmed the place. BEFORE

MikeJXE

Your choice to challenge it or not 

TooManyPoints

The pictures are not very clear and I had to blow them up to get an idea what they show. But I suggest you are wrong. I say that because I know that HADECS3 cameras (which  is the type involved) are sited adjacent to the gantry. Here's an article explaining how they work:

https://www.speedcamerasuk.com/hadecs-3.htm

Still, no point in arguing the toss on here. If you're right and we're wrong, your only option is to let the police take you to court and argue it out there. Do let us know how it goes.

Megdrim

For everyone the white car next to me i overtaken before gantry .On the gantry line was last time that car was next to me. I already contacted Manchester camera team and i asked to tell in what order was pictures taken (exact time of each) 2 What sector of motorway was 50 (where start where end and time) 3 exact location of each picture.

LightFlare

Megdrim said:

For everyone the white car next to me i overtaken before gantry .On the gantry line was last time that car was next to me. I already contacted Manchester camera team and i asked to tell in what order was pictures taken (exact time of each) 2 What sector of motorway was 50 (where start where end and time) 3 exact location of each picture.

Make sure you still respond to the request to name the driver. The clock doesn’t stop ticking on that while you are making all these enquiries 

Mildly_Miffed

Megdrim said:

Im not at fault

So you absolutely dispute that you were exceeding the speed limit at any time?

Because if this is just "those pics don't prove it", you might be in for a surprise - they will not be the totality of the evidence available.

and until a judge say something else im innocent right?

Correct.

Let's just remind you of the process here...

Once you've identified yourself as the driver, then you will receive an invitation to court or a fixed penalty - 72 in a 50 is within the threshold for that, but outside for a course.

If you get the FP, then you have a choice - accept you were speeding and take the FP, or refuse the FP and choose to go to court.

If you go to court, all the normal rules of evidence apply. You get to see all the images and/or video, instead of just the current handful to help you confirm it was your vehicle. You can present your evidence that you were not speeding, including your dashcam footage. The court will decide.

Would you be so kind as to post a more legible version of those images, if you want more specific assistance?

TooManyPoints

I don't know how much more specific assistance can be provided.

HADECS3 cameras are usually mounted on the nearside support column of the gantry which displays the speed limit. It is physically impossible for them to take photos of vehicles before they have reached the gantry. They use a dual radar system to measure the vehicle's speed a short distance beyond the gantry and take photographs whilst the vehicle is within that area. 

The photo which he has which is taken before the gantry is simply to provide evidence of the prevailing limit. Nothing in that area plays any part in the speed measurement process.

In the first photo, when it is greatly enlarged, under the first two columns of text in the top left corner, there appears to be two ghostly illuminated shapes. I cannot make out what they are but perhaps it is those which he considers to be the gantry under which he had just passed.

The OP is quite convinced he is right and that his speed has been measured before he reached the gantry. The only place to settle that argument is in court.