Returning a second hand car bought at distance

djneils98

I purchased a car a week ago for £7k. It was bought online from a dealer 4 hours away and the car was delivered at my cost without me seeing the car in person first.
Before anyone comments I will never do this again and totally realise in hindsight that this was a bad idea!

I discovered 2 issues with it on the day I bought it and informed the dealer. in an email.

The issues were a nasty burning fuel sort of smell in the cabin when driving and the drivers heated seat not working.

They offered to get the issues fixed locally and, hoping these might be little things and not really knowing my rights I agreed to get It looked at.

It turned out the smell was an oil leaking that's dripping onto something hot in the engine and the heater unit within the seat.

By this point I had read up on my rights more and realised that I have both the right to reject the car without reason within 14 days as it was distance sold, and also the right to reject it as it turned up with 2 faults that were undisclosed under the consumer rights act.

I informed the dealer who obviously wasn't happy but said I could return it but they would charge me 45p per mile I had driven it (fine with me) and also an as yet undisclosed fee for the addition of a new owner to the history of the car (which I am not really happy about unless it is a small amount).

In the last email I sent them I said I was prepared to pay for the cost of returning the car but smoeone told me it should be the dealer who pays for the returning of the car.

I am wondering now what the legality of the return cost is and who is legally responsible for it, particularly as the car is not In a state to be driven with the oil leak even if I wanted to do that.

So my question is - legally who is responsible for the cost of returning the car to the dealer? (about £400)

Also - if the dealer is supposed to pay for the return but refuses, can I agree to pay to get the car gone and then sue for the delvery costs through the small claims court at a later date?

djneils98

The dealer got back to me this evening and is trying to claim i've put 1000 miles on the car (!!) and want to charge me £450!!! 
The mileage is currently 160007 and i'd estimate (generously) that I did 100 miles in the car, most of that on the first day it was delivered. The paperwork I have with the car states the mileage on delivery as just "159k" (i.e not 159000) so not properly accurate to the mile. The dealer said he got that figure fromt the sales team and will check in the morning and get back to me. I really hope they realise this is a mistake on their part as this is starting to really stress me

Okell

You are still within 30 days from delivery so if the faults are serious enough to justify you exercising* your short term right to reject under the consumer Rights Act 2015 then that might be the best way to go.

My understanding is that if you exercise the short term-right then you are entitled to a full refund and the dealer is not permitted to charge you any fees or to charge you for any mileage you may have put on the car.

I think they will also be responsible for paying any reasonable costs in getting the car back to them.  (But I'm not 100% certain about that.  See what others say)

If you have not already done so tell them you are exercising your short term right to reject the car under the Consumer Rights Act and stop using the car immediately when you reject it.

The other option is to cancel a distance contract within 14 days of delivery.  I don't think this gives you as good a deal as under that option they could very well make a deduction for your use of the car.


*I'm not saying whether the faults you describe do or do not justify rejection

Mr.Generous

I'd be amazed if they can't charge mileage, nobody would ever hire a car, just buy then reject one.

Grumpy_chap

djneils98 said:

they would charge me 45p per mile I had driven it (fine with me) 

IF a charge per mile is appropriate, that charge should be much less than 45 pence per mile.  The HMRC mileage rates for business use of a private car is 45 pence per mile to include depreciation, fuel, maintenance, finance costs, insurance, breakdown cover, everything.  The trader has not incurred the majority of those costs.

Others will hopefully give specific advice as to whether a charge per mile is appropriate.

HillStreetBlues

Okell is correct there can not be a deduction in the STRTR. Only after it finishes can there be a deduction

Mr.Generous said:

I'd be amazed if they can't charge mileage, nobody would ever hire a car, just buy then reject one.

You can only use the STRTR if there is a fault. If OP was returning it under distance selling regs, then there could be a deduction. (Maybe the dealer is confused, or just trying it on).

Kim_13

djneils98 said:

The dealer got back to me this evening and is trying to claim i've put 1000 miles on the car (!!) and want to charge me £450!!! 
The mileage is currently 160007 and i'd estimate (generously) that I did 100 miles in the car, most of that on the first day it was delivered. The paperwork I have with the car states the mileage on delivery as just "159k" (i.e not 159000) so not properly accurate to the mile. The dealer said he got that figure fromt the sales team and will check in the morning and get back to me. I really hope they realise this is a mistake on their part as this is starting to really stress me

Do you have a copy of the photos included in the advert, or is one archived? Most cars have the odometer photographed when they are advertised. 

Even if not, I would be doing everything to avoid paying this as:

a) Countless examples of dealers advertising cars as the number of complete thousands of miles the car has covered, even if the car is closer to X+1,000 miles rather than X miles. You could find such examples on Autotrader to cite if you think it will help, and/or find another car evidencing the dealer’s use of this practice on their website.

b) They delivered the car to you four hours away - this would have resulted in several hundred miles going onto the car (unless they trailered it to you) which clearly you could not have put on it - and you’ve already paid for delivery.

c) Even if you had done 1,000 miles in it, which you refute, 1,000 miles onto a car that has done 159K is going to make no difference. If it was 1,000 miles onto a car that had done 15,900, things would be different.

Okell

Mr.Generous said:

I'd be amazed if they can't charge mileage, nobody would ever hire a car, just buy then reject one.

But you can only reject the car if it's faulty.*

These four sites - one of which is a motor trade body - all appear to confirm that when a consumer exercises their short term right to reject a car within 30 days of taking delivery, the dealer must pay a full refund and can't make any deductions from that refund for mileage or for anything else.

Can I Reject A New Or Used Car? l Consumer Law Blog l Nelsons (nelsonslaw.co.uk)

What are a consumer’s legal rights when buying a car? - The Motor Ombudsman

Rejecting a car - your consumer rights | The Car Expert

Letter rejecting a new or used car bought from a dealer - Which?


I advise the OP to read all the above carefully...


Only after the short term right to reject has expired can the dealer make a deduction for "use" of the vehicle - but they can do so in the first six months, unlike with other goods.

What is important is the OP communicate to the dealer that he is exercising his short term right to reject, stops using the car, and makes it available for the dealer to collect.  (I don't think the legislation allows the dealer to charge for that, but I may be mistaken)

Although tis is a distance sale I don't think it's in the OP's interests to cancel the contract as he has used the car and the dealer can charge for that if the contract is cancelled.  Assuming the car is faulty* I think the OP is better off to reject it.

But I'm not a lawyer and I'm just giving a personal opinion...


*I'm assuming the car is sufficiently faulty to justify rejection because the dealer seems to have already accepted the OP's rejection.  For all I know it might not be, but why would the dealer accept the rejection if the faults didn't warrant rejection?  The fact the dealer doesn't seem to understand the implications of rejection is irrelevant

Okell

Further to my previous post, it appears that so long as (1) the OP didn't collect the vehicle from the dealer himself, and (2) there is no agreement in the sales contract that the OP is responsible for returning the vehicle, then all the OP needs to do is to inform the dealer that the vehicle is ready for collection.

s20(7) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015

(7)  From the time when the right is exercised—

(a)  the trader has a duty to give the consumer a refund, subject to subsection (18), and

(b)  the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return rejected goods) to return them as agreed.

As I've said previously, this is all conditional on the faults being sufficiently serious to justify rejection.  But the OP appears to have told us that the dealer has accepted that the OP is rejecting the vehicle:

 "... By this point I had read up on my rights more and realised that I have both the right to reject the car without reason within 14 days as it was distance sold, and also the right to reject it as it turned up with 2 faults that were undisclosed under the consumer rights act.

I informed the dealer who obviously wasn't happy but said I could return it..."

fwor

One further suggestion: car dealers often have a car MOT'd before sale, and the online UK gov't MOT checker shows the mileage to the nearest mile, so you may be able to get evidence from that of the lowest that the mileage could have been, before deliver to you. Of course it may not help if it was test driven a lot, but it might help your case...

Wonka_2

Your legal rights are one thing - getting a car dealer to comply with them is another matter. 

What sort of dealer are we talking about ? One with premises/a registered company or a Facebook special ? 

And finally how did you pay ? 

Chances are that fixing the oil leak/seat are going to be cheaper/easier than trying to return it - but it depends on how much time/energy you have to throw at it

Purely out of interest what’s the car ? Something special enough to buy at 160k miles or something that looked like a bargain ?