Tradeperson and how they assess cost of job.

anotherquestion

Hi,

Going to get a fairly expensive plumbing job done, so have been looking at online prices of items required and trying to second guess in what range the quote should be.

1 As well as getting paid to do the work, usually do tradespersons expect to get profit on the items or materials supplied, and do they usually expect to get a profit added on top of the value of the work as well.

2 Even though you may have used a certain competent tradesperson for a while, have you any qualms about getting a second quote or you would rather pay a fair amount extra to stick with that person.

2 Even though eventually you do the get the job done well by the said tradesperson, how much messing around would you take from the same person, ie not turning up or both replying to texts or phone calls in a timely manner.

Just wondering so your views appreciated.

Bigphil1474

Depends what you mean by profit. If they can get a part for £25, would I be happy if they charged me £100 for it - No. But there is an amount above the £25 that is satisfactory - after all they have to pick, source, and collect the part. They may also have account fees or other costs associated with that. I would expect a reasonable mark up. Plus there's any tax. 

I will always stick to a reliable tradesperson until they give me reason not to. I'd rather pay a bit more for someone I know does a good job, than risk paying less for an unknown quantity.

My plumber can be a bit unreliable at times but it's because he's always busy so I usually let him fit me in when he can rather than demand a particular time. So far it's just been odd jobs that can be done as and when. I'm home most of the time so no biggy for me.

TELLIT01

One problem of checking out prices is that you don't know how much the tradesperson values using quality materials over the cheapest on the market.  That obviously affects price.  Trades will often get a lower price than the general public so they may see that difference as their markup.

If the tradesperson has done good work and has shown themselves to be reliable, and you are happy with the price, there is definitely an argument for sticking with them.  You never know how good they are until they do the work.

However, if a previously reliable tradesman starts to mess you about it's probably time to start looking elsewhere.  They may think you will go back to them no matter how much they mess you around.

HHarry

As an ex-Tradesman let me give my views from both sides of the fence.

1.  I never put a markup on materials, but 5 or 10% is not uncommon.  Often that’s seen as an amount to cover the cost of dealing with any warranty claims on those materials.  It could be argued that that should be part of the labour rate, but I don’t think it matters where that cost sits.  I know of Kitchen Fitters who get discounts of 35% but charge the retail price and that feels a little greedy.
 What do you mean by “profit on top of the value of the work”?  The labour element of the work will involve aprofit, otherwise they’d be working for free.

2.  Depends on your circumstances.  I know that I was more expensive than similar Trades, but I made sure to turn up when I said, do what was asked and charged what was agreed.  People would pay a premium for that reliability.  I had Customers that tried alternatives, some came back some didn’t.  If you’re price sensitive, or think the price is excessive then get a second quote.  But don’t get dozens, that’s just a waste of peoples time.

3.  I’d like to say none, but pragmatically that’s going to cause me grief.  I needed a Plasterer; the guy I’m using is friendly, plasters to a good standard and his day rate is (would be) reasonable.  But he has more than his share of family emergencies, or you’ll book him for a week then he’ll decide he doesn’t want to work one day, and you very rarely get a full day out of him (10 to 3 one day).  But he was the 7th Plasterer I contacted - 4 didn’t show up, 2 wanted sky high money - and so he gets the work because I haven’t got the desire to try and find someone better.

anotherquestion

"What do you mean by “profit on top of the value of the work”?  The labour element of the work will involve a profit, otherwise they’d be working for free."
.....................................................................................................................................................

Thanks a lot for all replies, appreciated, what I mean by profit on top of the value of the work is, what the tradesperson charger for their labour, but in addition to this feels they need to charge another top up fee on top of that , hence labour +profit.

ThisIsWeird

With regards to the cost of major parts - say, shower trays, enclosures, pottery, taps etc - there are two routes; one is to buy these parts yourself at the best price you can, and the tradesperson only charges for labour and plumbing fittings, and the other is to let the installer also buy everything.

The former will almost certainly be cheaper, but the latter comes with a 'full' warranty. Ie, if anything fails, the installer should remove and replace it, and it's up to them to sort that issue out with the supplier. But with the former arrangement - you supplying the parts - if, say, a shower mixer fails, you will need to pay for the required labour to replace it, and sort out getting the replacement part under warranty.

casper_gutman

I've tended to buy the major parts myself and pay someone to install them. On the upside it means I'm in control and get the stuff I want. On the downside it would muddy the waters if there was an issue with something I'd supplied. It hasn't bitten me in the bum yet in terms of the quality of the finished work, but it has led to some stressful moments when something hasn't arrived in a timely fashion and I've had to call round suppliers to find an essential item at short notice. It tends to work out cheaper as ThisIsWeird says, but I'm fully aware I could well be unlucky at any point.

In terms of mark-up/profit on materials supplied by the installer, I don't really care about how they come up with their figures. One person might charge a higher hourly rate and provide materials at cost or include sundries in their labour rate, and another might charge for every item used, with a mark-up, but have a cheaper labour rate.

I suppose one downside of an installer charging an "all-in" fee is that they're incentivised to used cheap materials to maximise profit. On the other hand, someone who's relying on mark-up to make a profit might be incentivised to buy overpriced materials and waste your money. In the end, what matters is to find someone I trust to do a good job. If I can do that, the only cost I'm interested in is the total amount they're charging for the job and whether it's competitive with (not necessarily cheaper than) other similarly trusted installers I could have used.

HHarry

anotherquestion said:

"What do you mean by “profit on top of the value of the work”?  The labour element of the work will involve a profit, otherwise they’d be working for free."
.....................................................................................................................................................

Thanks a lot for all replies, appreciated, what I mean by profit on top of the value of the work is, what the tradesperson charger for their labour, but in addition to this feels they need to charge another top up fee on top of that , hence labour +profit.

I might occasionally add something on top of my labour if I was particularly busy and didn’t need the work, or if it was a long way out of my usual working area.

 But I provided quotes 90% of the time - so you’d only see the total price.  You’d never know how it was split.

ThisIsWeird

I would expect all-in quotes to list the actual main items to be used - make and model of mixer, taps, pottery, tiles, etc. None of that should come as a surprise.

The rest - the plumbing parts, grouts, adhesives, etc, - I'd trust the tradesperson to not use carp, as they would surely have a decent standard they work to in any case. It's not in their interest for something to fail or be obviously second-rate.

TELLIT01

There is a 3rd way regarding sourcing the materials.  The customer does the research and agrees the specific items with the contractor.  The contractor then purchases.  That way there can be no argument about the items being the wrong thing, but the contractor is responsible if anything goes wrong.

I stress this must be done with the agreement of the contractor.  If the customer wants to cut corners by getting the cheapest possible any sensible contractor would either refuse the job, or tell the customer to purchase at their own risk.

Risteard

HHarry said:

As an ex-Tradesman let me give my views from both sides of the fence.

1.  I never put a markup on materials, but 5 or 10% is not uncommon.  Often that’s seen as an amount to cover the cost of dealing with any warranty claims on those materials.  It could be argued that that should be part of the labour rate, but I don’t think it matters where that cost sits.  I know of Kitchen Fitters who get discounts of 35% but charge the retail price and that feels a little greedy.
 What do you mean by “profit on top of the value of the work”?  The labour element of the work will involve aprofit, otherwise they’d be working for free.

2.  Depends on your circumstances.  I know that I was more expensive than similar Trades, but I made sure to turn up when I said, do what was asked and charged what was agreed.  People would pay a premium for that reliability.  I had Customers that tried alternatives, some came back some didn’t.  If you’re price sensitive, or think the price is excessive then get a second quote.  But don’t get dozens, that’s just a waste of peoples time.

3.  I’d like to say none, but pragmatically that’s going to cause me grief.  I needed a Plasterer; the guy I’m using is friendly, plasters to a good standard and his day rate is (would be) reasonable.  But he has more than his share of family emergencies, or you’ll book him for a week then he’ll decide he doesn’t want to work one day, and you very rarely get a full day out of him (10 to 3 one day).  But he was the 7th Plasterer I contacted - 4 didn’t show up, 2 wanted sky high money - and so he gets the work because I haven’t got the desire to try and find someone better.

5-10% is nowhere near. Industry standard is around 25%/30%.