Confirmation In Scotland - Time Limit?

TCA

Thank you @buddy9. I think I'm safe with the equal sharing of the joint account. Both parents more or less had full working lives earning similar salaries and likewise similar pensions in retirement, retiring within a couple of years of each other. So hopefully no real grounds to displace the 50/50 split. 

With regard to allowing for the 7% interest provision, what's a reasonable time period to calculate this over? I'm presuming I need to allow for the processing of the application. The simple grant of confirmation I applied for in 2016 for my aunt on my dad's behalf (also at Falkirk) only took 1 week, but to be safe, perhaps use from date of death to say 6-8 weeks after intended application date? Or is there guidance on how to calculate this?  

So just to confirm, given I'm including nothing for household furnishings, I calculate as follows:

Moveable estate minus funeral expenses and liabilities, then add 7% interest (pro-rata to an estimated payment date) to the net moveable estate figure and if the resulting amount is less than £50k, we avoid the bond of caution?

buddy9

While the requirement to pay interest on the monetary provision (7% per annum) is part of prior rights, I think the court will not take this into account. I haven’t seen anything authoritative which covers this. 

I think that the court is likely only to consider the values (debts, liabilities and funeral expenses) as entered on the C1.

A submitted C1 which shows (in your case) moveable assets minus liabilities etc. greater than £50k might be challenged regarding the need for a bond of caution.

It would be a safer approach, if possible, to review the executor’s assessment of values and/or be more thorough with including or calculating liabilities, so that in the C1 the moveable assets minus liabilities was below £50k.

TCA

Thanks again @buddy9.

I can't think of any liabilities to add and given there's not much else going into the inventory, the only real moveable asset valuation I can be a bit creative with is the car valuation.

50% of the bank balance plus an income tax repayment and state pension arrears totals £45,800. That only leaves the car. I've tried half a dozen car valuation websites and the lowest valuation I can find is £3,976 when selecting average condition (which it is). So that would only just keep me just under the £50k. 

My thinking is to include it as Household Goods and Personal Effects, without specifically mentioning a car, and just put "estimated by executor dative at open market value £4k". Thereby leaving it open to interpretation that there may be a valuation for home furnishings in there, which would be considered under the £29k prior rights for that element instead.

Ok to proceed like that do you think?

Not forgetting funeral expenses of £4.2k, which would keep the net figure well under £50k.

buddy9

if net total is  under £50k you should be ok.

TCA

TCA said:

The property is on the old sasine register and looking at the deeds, it appears to be solely in my dad's name with no survivorship clause, so title doesn't pass automatically to my mum. I found a post on MSE where someone in a similar situation had asked Land Register of Scotland if there was a requirement to transfer title and he was told the property could be left in his late father's name until it eventually passed to him via his mother. I haven't managed to find anything definitive to confirm this.

buddy9 said:

Transferring the house title is separate to obtaining confirmation. ROS normally advises that registration can be deferred.

Nearly there with the C1 form and should be good to submit next week. Just got a couple of final questions regarding the property before I go ahead:

1) Title deeds - the deeds for my own property are on the newer Land Register of Scotland and run to about 20 pages. There's a clear section for ownership, where my wife and I are named and includes the survivorship clause. The copy deeds I have for my parents' house on the old sasine register only comprises 3 pages. 2 pages of a disposition (labelled folio 91 and 92) and a 1 page Search Sheet showing a description of the property and all previous owners.

As my mum isn't mentioned on any of these 3 pages (just my dad), can I categorically assume she has no share in the ownership of the property and there's no survivorship clause lurking in the full deeds (if there is such a thing)?

2) Standard security - from the paperwork I have I can see the mortgage was paid off in 1988 but I have nothing to confirm that the standard security was removed. So wondering if this is an issue regarding the grant of confirmation? 

The mortgage was with Co-operative Permanent Building Society which later became Nationwide Building Society. It looks like after the mortgage was paid off in 1988 they continued to take home insurance with Nationwide up until 2005 then went elsewhere. A balance of £1 was left on the mortgage account as they remained in the Nationwide Natural Redemption Scheme, which I'm guessing is just them storing title deeds. There's no paperwork from Nationwide after this.

The copy deeds I have are from Registers of Scotland in 2003 and the disposition is as before. It's title is "disposition by Mr S (previous owner) to Co-operative Permanent Building Society and the text states "I, Mr S.......sold the said subjects to (my dad)"......."who has requested me (Mr S) to convey the said subjects to the Co-operative Permanent Building Society"......."I hereby dispone to and in favour of the said Co-operative Permanent Building Society and their successors and assignees".

The search sheet references the disposition by Mr S with consent of my dad, to Co-operative Permanent Building Society.

Does this present me with a problem for the grant of confirmation? I don't know if removal of a standard security would even be recorded in the old sasine register or to what extent the sheriff court checks title deeds?        

Can anyone advise on the above?

Thanks

buddy9

It looks as if your mother was not an owner of the house.

If a standard security has not been discharged in the title, this is not an issue for the confirmation, it will be dealt with during conveyancing. The sheriff court conducts no search of title deeds. The risk of getting a description wrong sits wholly with the applicant. That said, a description in a C1 which is blatantly inappropriate might result in a refusal by the court.

TCA

buddy9 said:

If a standard security has not been discharged in the title, this is not an issue for the confirmation, it will be dealt with during conveyancing. The sheriff court conducts no search of title deeds. The risk of getting a description wrong sits wholly with the applicant. That said, a description in a C1 which is blatantly inappropriate might result in a refusal by the court.

Thanks. Maybe to be safe I should amend the property description in the inventory then?

Working from an example on here I included the phrase "disposition by Mr S in favour of my dad" but that's perhaps not strictly true.

I've included a 4-line spiel about the disposition, including date recorded in the sasine register, but looking at the application I made for my aunt in 2016, all I included was the property address and "valued by XYZ estate agents at open market value on 7/11/2016". This wasn't queried.

Maybe simplify it completely or just take out the "in favour of my dad" line?

buddy9

A simple address description might not be queried by the court. You need to also have a description that will not cause any problems for subsequent conveyancing.

TCA

Taking out the reference "in favour of my dad" would leave:

Being the subjects described in the disposition by Mr S (previous owner) dated xxxx 1965 and recorded in the General Register of Sasines (County of Stirling) on xxxx 1965.

Valued by Slater Hogg & Howison on 5th March 2025 at open market value

buddy9

I don't see any advantage in omitting 'in favour of etc'. It would be normal to show 'granter' and 'grantee'.