Confirmation In Scotland - Time Limit?

buddy9

I don't. It seems to have fallen into disuse.

TCA

OK, thanks. 

TCA

Executor-dative status has now been granted for my mum, so thanks again to @buddy9 for the assistance. For anyone following this thread in the future, I didn't date the petition or mention commissariot. I was able to do everything without my mum having to go to the sheriff court. Just needed to take along 3 pieces of documentary evidence as per the Scottish Courts website:

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/dealing-with-a-deceaseds-estate-in-scotland/large-estates/ 

So now to plough on with the confirmation.

First up, I've been unable to find suitable wording for the declaration, so looking for a steer on that if anyone can help please. I started with:

2. That I am

xxxx xxxxxx xxxxx (name), the widow and executor-dative qua relict to the deceased as appointed by decree of the Sheriffdom of Tayside, Central and Fife at xxxxx (location) on 19th February 2025.

But from a reply above it appears I have to mention that the estate will be exhausted by prior rights, so just wondering how exactly to incorporate that and whether I have to mention intestacy?      

buddy9

Here is an example for para 2. But ensure that you use the description exactly as stated in the decree. Reference prior rights if accurate. 

That I am

the executor-dative qua relict to the deceased conform to decree granted by the sheriff of Tayside, Central and Fife at [location] on the 19th of February 2025, and have right by virtue of sections 8 and 9(2) of the Succession (Scotland) Act 1964 to the whole estate of the deceased.

TCA

Thanks. All I received back was an emailed document "Interlocutor - Hearing" which reads:

(location)              19 February 2025                                                                                                     Sheriff 

The sheriff, having considered the foregoing petition for appointment as executor-dative, in respect there have been no objections lodged thereto, grants decree as craved appointing the pursuer executor-dative qua relict to the deceased (name and address)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sheriff (name) Advocate
                                                                                                                                                                      Sheriff

I think your example is therefore ok to use? Prior rights is accurate.

No need to mention my mum's name in para 2 or the fact she is the widow of the deceased?

Am I right in thinking this document does not need to be submitted as part of the grant of confirmation application?

buddy9

                                                                                                                                                                 

I think your example is therefore ok to use? Prior rights is accurate.

No need to mention my mum's name in para 2 or the fact she is the widow of the deceased?

Am I right in thinking this document does not need to be submitted as part of the grant of confirmation application?

Looks fine therefore. no need to insert name into para 2 or say widow. And the decree does not need submitted with the C1.

TCA

Thanks @buddy9

TCA

A few questions regarding the C1(2022) form should anyone be able to kindly assist. Just to summarise: this is an excepted estate, so won't breach the inheritance tax threshold and as noted above, with no will in place, everything will pass to my mum under prior rights intestacy rules. Apologies for the long post:    

1) At the very top of the form it asks for "Your reference". The guidance just says complete "if appropriate". What are they looking for here? A tax reference number of the declarant? The next box, HMRC reference, will be left blank.

In respect of the inventory, the major assets are really just the family home, cash in the joint bank account and the car.

2) Family home - title deeds from the old Sasine register only show my dad's name with no visible survivorship clause or my mum's name mentioned anywhere, so my assumption is that my dad counts as sole owner. The mortgage was cleared many years ago and was in my dad's name only. So just to double-check, even though the house would've been paid for with joint funds, I still include the full property valuation in the inventory? We've had a valuation done by an estate agent which I presume will suffice.

3) Joint bank account - a straight 50% of the balance at date of death. Presumably I show the full balance in the third column then half of that in the fourth column. Wording something like "pro indiviso share of joint account"?

4) Household goods and personal effects - my dad didn't leave anything in the way of personal effects like jewellery, so not much of value here other than the family car. The car was bought by my dad (invoice in his name) but was purchased with joint funds. In terms of household goods, the furniture in the house is probably over 20 years old, so has no real resale value. Likewise if we have to value white goods, there's little value in used freezers, a fridge, an oven and a washing machine. There is a desktop computer which again wouldn't fetch much if sold.

For the car I can use a valuation from motorway.co.uk or webuyanycar.com, which looks to be around £3-£4k. So I'm thinking use one of those and just round up to the next thousand (or two) for all the other household stuff. Is that a reasonable approach? I'm presuming this'll also be a pro indiviso share (or whatever the wording is)?

5) Income tax repayment for 2024/25 - we received this very quickly, so it can be included. £369. Not quite sure how they've managed to do this when there's still state pension owing and some private pension payments for 2024/25 due, but it looks like all actual payments received plus an estimate of any accrued payments to date of death, wouldn't go over the personal allowance, so they've just refunded all tax paid in the year. 

6) State pension due - still waiting on this but it should be about 2 weeks of full state pension. Around £400.

7) Private pensions due - this is likely to be what holds up the process. My dad had 3 small private pensions (annuities), worth just over £5k per year in total. They were paid monthly and I presume in arrears, although I haven't checked. Even if my dad's estate is due a full month's payment from each, we're talking a maximum of £430. My mum stands to inherit 50% of these pensions, so it may be that getting annuities set up in her name takes some time and maybe impacts when we hear about payments due to my dad. After nearly 2 months, one company is saying they're waiting on a form from me, which I never received. So this could take a while.

Given the size of the figures involved (max £430 due) and the fact that the total amount for confirmation wouldn't be liable for inheritance tax anyway, is there any point in waiting possibly months for these pension companies or would an estimate be acceptable? Or is the aim to be as accurate as possible no matter the amounts involved?

8) Utilities - the guidance refers to "refunds due of gas,electricity, insurances or licences". My thinking here is that they're referring to instances where energy accounts have been closed, annual insurances cancelled or tv licences cancelled, mostly in cases where a property becomes empty? This would therefore not apply in our situation where my mum has just taken over these various items?

Back to the form itself:

9) Unique taxpayer reference - is this ten-digit reference just for the self-employed? If so, it wouldn't apply to my dad. All I have is a PAYE reference in the format 333/AA33333.

Lastly, regarding which documents to submit:

10) Given the inventory is numbered I had presumed this was cross referencing for backup documents to be included with the submission. Property valuation, bank statements, HMRC letters etc... However the guidance has a section entitled "What about all the papers and records I now have", which states "You do not need to send copies of any of the other papers you've used to complete the C1(2022)". Is this saying that (apart from I.D docs) I send absolutely nothing other than the 5-page C1(2022)?

That's my lot. Thank you in advance for any pointers.

buddy9

TCA said:   

1) At the very top of the form it asks for "Your reference". The guidance just says complete "if appropriate". What are they looking for here? A tax reference number of the declarant? The next box, HMRC reference, will be left blank.

Leave both blank

2) Family home - title deeds from the old Sasine register only show my dad's name with no visible survivorship clause or my mum's name mentioned anywhere, so my assumption is that my dad counts as sole owner. The mortgage was cleared many years ago and was in my dad's name only. So just to double-check, even though the house would've been paid for with joint funds, I still include the full property valuation in the inventory? We've had a valuation done by an estate agent which I presume will suffice.

Dad will be the sole owner and full value is shown. If house is still in the sasines register (you can look here https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/map-search) inventory type example for a situation where a whole property comprises one disposition.

3) Joint bank account - a straight 50% of the balance at date of death. Presumably I show the full balance in the third column then half of that in the fourth column. Wording something like "pro indiviso share of joint account"?
Do not use the third column, that is for shares (as in stocks and shares).

Simple example

4) Household goods and personal effects - my dad didn't leave anything in the way of personal effects like jewellery, so not much of value here other than the family car. The car was bought by my dad (invoice in his name) but was purchased with joint funds. In terms of household goods, the furniture in the house is probably over 20 years old, so has no real resale value. Likewise if we have to value white goods, there's little value in used freezers, a fridge, an oven and a washing machine. There is a desktop computer which again wouldn't fetch much if sold.

If the household effects have no market value, do not include an entry.

For the car I can use a valuation from motorway.co.uk or webuyanycar.com, which looks to be around £3-£4k. So I'm thinking use one of those and just round up to the next thousand (or two) for all the other household stuff. Is that a reasonable approach? I'm presuming this'll also be a pro indiviso share (or whatever the wording is)?

List the car separately. Make, reg no, value

5) Income tax repayment for 2024/25 - we received this very quickly, so it can be included. £369. Not quite sure how they've managed to do this when there's still state pension owing and some private pension payments for 2024/25 due, but it looks like all actual payments received plus an estimate of any accrued payments to date of death, wouldn't go over the personal allowance, so they've just refunded all tax paid in the year. 

6) State pension due - still waiting on this but it should be about 2 weeks of full state pension. Around £400.

7) Private pensions due - this is likely to be what holds up the process. My dad had 3 small private pensions (annuities), worth just over £5k per year in total. They were paid monthly and I presume in arrears, although I haven't checked. Even if my dad's estate is due a full month's payment from each, we're talking a maximum of £430. My mum stands to inherit 50% of these pensions, so it may be that getting annuities set up in her name takes some time and maybe impacts when we hear about payments due to my dad. After nearly 2 months, one company is saying they're waiting on a form from me, which I never received. So this could take a while.

Given the size of the figures involved (max £430 due) and the fact that the total amount for confirmation wouldn't be liable for inheritance tax anyway, is there any point in waiting possibly months for these pension companies or would an estimate be acceptable? Or is the aim to be as accurate as possible no matter the amounts involved?

Use estimates and describe them as so.

8) Utilities - the guidance refers to "refunds due of gas,electricity, insurances or licences". My thinking here is that they're referring to instances where energy accounts have been closed, annual insurances cancelled or tv licences cancelled, mostly in cases where a property becomes empty? This would therefore not apply in our situation where my mum has just taken over these various items?

Agree

Back to the form itself:

9) Unique taxpayer reference - is this ten-digit reference just for the self-employed? If so, it wouldn't apply to my dad. All I have is a PAYE reference in the format 333/AA33333.
UTR - show as not known

Lastly, regarding which documents to submit:

10) Given the inventory is numbered I had presumed this was cross referencing for backup documents to be included with the submission. Property valuation, bank statements, HMRC letters etc... However the guidance has a section entitled "What about all the papers and records I now have", which states "You do not need to send copies of any of the other papers you've used to complete the C1(2022)". Is this saying that (apart from I.D docs) I send absolutely nothing other than the 5-page C1(2022)?

In your case, I agree

Response as above in bold.

TCA

Brilliant @buddy9. Your help is much appreciated.

Re the car - do you agree half of the value is used given it was bought with joint funds? Despite my dad being on the invoice. Description just "value estimated by executor-dative" or state the website?

If we're saying no documents at all need submitted, do the inventory items still need to be numbered?