Almost nobody in my workplace invests in the stock market for their retirement, it's insane.

Altior

QrizB said:

Altior said:

Not particularly directed at the poster I quoted, but unfortunately we do have people/posters who seem very often to try and make out it's 'so bad' right now, when it actually isn't. It really isn't, in my view. If it is, however, let's see some tangible evidence.

In 1991, straight out of Compton sorry uni and before minimum wage legislation, I was pleased to get a casual job on £3.50 an hour. Inflated to today, that would be £7.90. current minimum wage is 50% higher than that so I'd suggest that the low-waged are substantially better off today than they were then.

Altior said:

 RL is our employer pension provider, we regularly get RL reps to come in and deliver pension presentations, with AMA time at the end. I work in a fin tech business, with an employee profile that is tilted to the young. Most colleagues have at least a basic grasp of accounting and finance, to get through the door. Almost everyone zones out, so many young people just don't care about pensions.

Our provider is Scottish Widows. They provide quarterly pensions talks via Teams and it's quite noticeable that most of the self-selecting audience are from the mature end of the age range.

Having said that, a few of the young uns in the office were talking about risking a few hundred on day trading, so us old fogeys pointed out that they had much bigger stock market investments in their pensions. That got them thinking about their investment strategies and at least a few of them decided to increase their contributions from the minimum. So ther might be hope for them yet!

Suspect we're about the same age. My first earning job was £10 a week for 7 days a week paper round, 5 of them before taking a 5 mile trip to school (bussing and walking). First proper p/t job was £3.30 an hour, I seem to recall some tax and NI was deducted off that. 

Altior

Angelica123 said:

Given that the whole FIRE moment has become more widely known, I think there are more and more people who are thinking about pensions etc even in their 20s. 

I think there is a huge difference between someone who chooses to opt out of a pension and someone who chooses not to invest in stocks and shares. I think I am hard pressed to think of many scenarios where it would not be a good idea to put money into a pensions. Whereas investing is a personal preference - I would think that someone on below average wage probably can't afford to ride the volatility of the market - their priorities probably should be paying into pension and building an emergency fund.

Yes you'll get some people opting out of auto enrolment, and doing some investing/gambling, particularly app based with single shares, crypto and whatnot. However, if no employees chose to opt out of auto enrolled pensions, they'd nearly all be investing long term, as hardly anyone deviates from the default funds. Whether they knew about it or not!

Perhaps the powers that be could consider employers being mandated to contribute a minimum percentage, whether the employee opts out or not. On the other hand, there's already significant pressure coming to on-costs anyway, with the upcoming changes to legislation. 

Archerychick

Altior said:

Archerychick said:

All at the sacrifice of just £100 per month, or £3.30 per day. Seems like such a no brainer to me I genuinely find it hard to believe that so many people (in my place of work) don't think the £100 a month is a worthwhile price to pay.

I guess because £100 might mean they then can’t heat their homes - that would be a pretty horrible existence. There are a lot of people who are living on the bread line, more than when we were younger 

Out of interest, what's that claim based on? What time period/point of reference does 'when we were younger' draw upon.

My instinct is what a lot of people consider the 'bread line' is significantly different to what it was many years ago. I was born is the 70s, so I just about reach back to the winter of discontent in my living memory. My Dad's family had a tin bath, filled once a day with hot water from a kettle, the family shared the same bathwater. He was born in the 40s. 

I believe the cost of living crisis that exists today is very well reported. 

Annoyingly I can’t find an article I was reading this morning, but statists reports on disposable income 


https://www.statista.com/statistics/1070120/real-household-disposable-income-per-capita-change-forecast-united-kingdom/

some more interesting data here https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9428/

Along with the fact that wages haven’t risen in line with inflation, squeezes the gap between income and costs. Lastly this page https://www.jrf.org.uk/cost-of-living/jrfs-cost-of-living-tracker-winter-2024

eskbanker

Archerychick said:

Altior said:

Archerychick said:There are a lot of people who are living on the bread line, more than when we were younger 

Out of interest, what's that claim based on? What time period/point of reference does 'when we were younger' draw upon.

I believe the cost of living crisis that exists today is very well reported. 

Annoyingly I can’t find an article I was reading this morning, but statists reports on disposable income 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1070120/real-household-disposable-income-per-capita-change-forecast-united-kingdom/

some more interesting data here https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9428/

Along with the fact that wages haven’t risen in line with inflation, squeezes the gap between income and costs. Lastly this page https://www.jrf.org.uk/cost-of-living/jrfs-cost-of-living-tracker-winter-2024

But those links simply confirm that the last few years have been tougher than those immediately preceding them, which doesn't really support your argument about 'more living on the bread line than when we were younger', or at least it doesn't clarify the question asked about when specifically you're referring to?  Do you just mean that there are more 'on the bread line' in 2024 than, say, 2021?

TheBanker

QrizB said:

Altior said:

Not particularly directed at the poster I quoted, but unfortunately we do have people/posters who seem very often to try and make out it's 'so bad' right now, when it actually isn't. It really isn't, in my view. If it is, however, let's see some tangible evidence.

In 1991, straight out of Compton sorry uni and before minimum wage legislation, I was pleased to get a casual job on £3.50 an hour. Inflated to today, that would be £7.90. current minimum wage is 50% higher than that so I'd suggest that the low-waged are substantially better off today than they were then.

Yes, wages were lower, but so were costs, especially housing.

Back in the '70s my dad drove a bus for a living and my mum worked in an office. When I was born at the end of that decade, my mum stopped work. She didn't go back to work for eight years (when my little sister started school), and even then it was only part time. In those days the mum staying at home to look after the children, or just working part time was much more common.

Despite only having one salary, they continued to pay the mortgaage on their modest semi-detached house. I know they really wanted to move to a bigger house but couldn't quite afford it. We always had nice food on the table (mostly cooked from fresh each day by my mum), we always had clean clothes (although a lot were 'hand me downs' from my older cousin) and we got a holiday every year all be it in a caravan on the Norfolk coast. As far as I know the only state help they received was the Child Benefit. Looking back, we were poor but we were no different to all the other families I knew. Compared to their post-war childhoolds, mine would have been a life of luxury.

You would struggle to make ends meet on a bus driver's wages today, even though we now have the minimum wage.

In terms of investments, my dad had his bus drivers pension, which was a final salary scheme, a legacy of when the buses were run by the County Council. They also had some things they called 'plans' which I think were endowements designed to provide some money to support me and my sister if one or both of them died while we were children. They were bought from a man who used to come to the house once a month to collect the premiums and were probably awful value compared to today's products! 

Archerychick

eskbanker said:

Archerychick said:

Altior said:

Archerychick said:There are a lot of people who are living on the bread line, more than when we were younger 

Out of interest, what's that claim based on? What time period/point of reference does 'when we were younger' draw upon.

I believe the cost of living crisis that exists today is very well reported. 

Annoyingly I can’t find an article I was reading this morning, but statists reports on disposable income 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1070120/real-household-disposable-income-per-capita-change-forecast-united-kingdom/

some more interesting data here https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9428/

Along with the fact that wages haven’t risen in line with inflation, squeezes the gap between income and costs. Lastly this page https://www.jrf.org.uk/cost-of-living/jrfs-cost-of-living-tracker-winter-2024

But those links simply confirm that the last few years have been tougher than those immediately preceding them, which doesn't really support your argument about 'more living on the bread line than when we were younger', or at least it doesn't clarify the question asked about when specifically you're referring to?  Do you just mean that there are more 'on the bread line' in 2024 than, say, 2021?

I see your point. I was comparing with when I was younger (in my 20’s). Which is more than 20 years ago, first out of home living and paying my own bills. Compared to the people who are that age today trying to do the same - it’s incredibly hard for a 20 year old to be able to live by themselves and make ends meet, let alone pay into a pension. I have this conversation regular with 20/30 year olds who we employee - it is real based on what I see and hear.

Albermarle

These discussions often boil down to two main things that have changed in the last 50 years.

On the one hand ( as mentioned in another post) housing costs are much higher today relative to other living costs.

However on the other hand, today the average person expects a higher basic ( and more expensive) standard of living than then. Where having a mobile phone contract, daily takeaway coffee, eating out regularly, family home with multiple laptops/X box/TVs etc, house with two bathrooms, weekends in foreign cities, two weeks in the Med etc is seen as almost necessities by many people who are often only on average incomes.  

Altior

Archerychick said:

Altior said:

Archerychick said:

All at the sacrifice of just £100 per month, or £3.30 per day. Seems like such a no brainer to me I genuinely find it hard to believe that so many people (in my place of work) don't think the £100 a month is a worthwhile price to pay.

I guess because £100 might mean they then can’t heat their homes - that would be a pretty horrible existence. There are a lot of people who are living on the bread line, more than when we were younger 

Out of interest, what's that claim based on? What time period/point of reference does 'when we were younger' draw upon.

My instinct is what a lot of people consider the 'bread line' is significantly different to what it was many years ago. I was born is the 70s, so I just about reach back to the winter of discontent in my living memory. My Dad's family had a tin bath, filled once a day with hot water from a kettle, the family shared the same bathwater. He was born in the 40s. 

I believe the cost of living crisis that exists today is very well reported. 

Annoyingly I can’t find an article I was reading this morning, but statists reports on disposable income 


https://www.statista.com/statistics/1070120/real-household-disposable-income-per-capita-change-forecast-united-kingdom/

some more interesting data here https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9428/

Along with the fact that wages haven’t risen in line with inflation, squeezes the gap between income and costs. Lastly this page https://www.jrf.org.uk/cost-of-living/jrfs-cost-of-living-tracker-winter-2024

The 'cost of living' crisis is a gaslighting term, it used to be just boring old high inflation until lockdown ended, and 'everyone' started spending the money they'd saved. The 'lockdown effect' was pretty much a global phenomenon.

When does the 'cost of living' crisis end, iyo? Reported inflation has normalised for quite a while.

It's a valiant attempt I suppose, however the Statista link only shows 'change in real household disposable income', which I can't even read properly without signing up, but looks like most of the bars are positive from what I can see (the chart for me is hidden behind a sign up dialog box). 

The 'JRF' is a think tank well on the left of politics, so it would probably say what one might expect, in any case it's not independent. tbh it's in a tough format to read and digest, and links to independent sources are hard to find. 

The HoC link is far too generic, but I suppose it would need to be defined exactly what was meant by the bread line, and what was your reference point in time. After a few minutes googling, this was about the best I could find:

jimjames

Archerychick said:

All at the sacrifice of just £100 per month, or £3.30 per day. Seems like such a no brainer to me I genuinely find it hard to believe that so many people (in my place of work) don't think the £100 a month is a worthwhile price to pay.

I guess because £100 might mean they then can’t heat their homes - that would be a pretty horrible existence. There are a lot of people who are living on the bread line, more than when we were younger 

I'd be interested to know if this is any more than anecdotal comments. It may well be true but I also wonder if there is an element of lack of budgeting knowledge and desire to have everything now that plays a part. There are certainly more food banks than there used to be but when no checks are done on the people getting supplies I suspect (again anecdotal) that there will be some people using that as an alternative to supermarkets because they're not managing their money rather than being below breadline.

It was interesting that when I was in the pub last week there was a group of lads in their 30s on the next table and they were all discussing ISAs and investments. It did seem somewhat out of place but good that at least some are talking about these things.

Cornish_mum

fuzzzzy said:

[Deleted User] said:

It just seems like not enough people are being financially responsible and taking steps to ensure they have a comfortable retirement. I absolutely promise you when you're 65 and freezing cold in your home because you can't afford to put the heating on, eating from food banks and having no money to do anything, you'll totally regret not being frugal and investing for your future. 

I absolutely promise you that if in mid-life you ever find yourself in a hospital bed being told your condition could be life threatening you'll totally regret having been frugal.

No-one knows what the future holds for them and so it is also about having a balanced approach. Save a bit, invest a bit, live a bit.

I am in exactly the situation fuzzy outlined (mid life aggressive cancer). 

I am thankful every day for my previous frugal self. As my financial cushion, mortgage overpayments and DC pension fund, mean my young family will be ok and I will be able to afford effective but not currently funded by the NHS medications, when the need arises. Also I have been able to concentrate on my health and family, & haven’t needed to worry about my drop in income etc. A lot of ladies in my cancer group are not so fortunate.