Almost nobody in my workplace invests in the stock market for their retirement, it's insane.

eskbanker

DRS1 said:

[Deleted User] said:

[Deleted User] said:

[Deleted User] said:

I work in a slightly below average pay job and I've probably spoken to about 20 out of the 30 colleagues about investing, just to gauge how common it is among "regular" people. 

And literally not one person I spoke to said they invest in the stock market, even when I asked about the workplace pension, about half of them said they opted out because "money now is better than money when I'm dead" which is just silly because the average life expectancy in the UK is 82... So what are they going to do to get by until they die? The state pension only? Yeah good luck with that.

One guy I spoke to who was in his mid 20's said he saves some money but in a savings account with a bank. I asked him what the interest rate was and he didn't even know... So probably like 1.5% if it's a regular high street bank which I suspect it is. I didn't have the heart to tell him he's actually losing money to inflation, not saving it... 

It just seems like not enough people are being financially responsible and taking steps to ensure they have a comfortable retirement. I absolutely promise you when you're 65 and freezing cold in your home because you can't afford to put the heating on, eating from food banks and having no money to do anything, you'll totally regret not being frugal and investing for your future. 

I think too many people live in the here and now without a seconds thought for the future. I understand that money is tight for many people but surely you can put a little bit away each month to supplement your pension when you're old?

I think financial education should be mandatory in schools with students being shown videos of old people living in poverty because they didn't invest in their retirements.

in fact its worse. Its letting some other pleb gamble with your hard earned money.

Saving yes, investing no.

And this right here is a prime example of stock market illiteracy. I'm guessing you don't know that passive index trackers exist right?

I would never give my money to a "professional" to invest... not only has history proven that the overwhelming majority of them cannot beat the index, but they charge ridiculous fees.

And with regards to "living life". You can still live life and enjoy it but don't spend every pay check every month. Of course you can if you want but when you're old and cold, hungry, living in poverty going to food banks eating 1 meal a day with damp growing in your home, don't you dare blame "the system or the government", or energy companies or anyone else for your new found poverty.

Because it'll be their fault and their fault entirely.

There is a level of contempt oozing from this post which I think is highly inappropriate.

Someone has another point of view from you.  That is entirely legitimate.

Not everyone behaves the way you think they should.  It happens.

To be fair, "in fact its worse. Its letting some other pleb gamble with your hard earned money. Saving yes, investing no." isn't exactly a credible and reasoned response to the substantial post it quoted, so it's perhaps unsurprising that the tone of the next reply reflects that....

Albermarle

even when I asked about the workplace pension, about half of them said they opted out because "money now is better than money when I'm dead"

Probably the best responses to this ( if you want to sell/preach the positive aspects of pensions to your colleagues) are;
You are turning down free money. In a basic auto enrolment scheme, you pay 4% and your are given 4% for free.
If you have a decent pension pot you will probably be able to retire early and not have to keep slogging until you are 70. 

These are positive simple points that may at least cause a few of them to think again.

eskbanker

Albermarle said:

In a basic auto enrolment scheme, you pay 4% and your are given 4% for free.

It's 5% and 3% respectively:

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/what-you-your-employer-and-the-government-pay

ircE

eskbanker said:

Albermarle said:

In a basic auto enrolment scheme, you pay 4% and your are given 4% for free.

It's 5% and 3% respectively:

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/what-you-your-employer-and-the-government-pay

Not to speak for @Albermarle but it could be argued that since the 5% is essentially post-tax 4% + 1% tax relief, then "give 4% to get 4%" is the framing that would make sense for someone who has opted out.

eskbanker

ircE said:

eskbanker said:

Albermarle said:

In a basic auto enrolment scheme, you pay 4% and your are given 4% for free.

It's 5% and 3% respectively:

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/what-you-your-employer-and-the-government-pay

Not to speak for @Albermarle but it could be argued that since the 5% is essentially post-tax 4% + 1% tax relief, then "give 4% to get 4%" is the framing that would make sense for someone who has opted out.

Sounds a bit contrived to me, and, given the dangers of myths and misinformation, it would always be best IMHO to state facts that are clearly verifiable in such circumstances, even if amplified with additional explanation about the ultimate net effect of such contributions!

DRS1

eskbanker said:

DRS1 said:

[Deleted User] said:

[Deleted User] said:

[Deleted User] said:

I work in a slightly below average pay job and I've probably spoken to about 20 out of the 30 colleagues about investing, just to gauge how common it is among "regular" people. 

And literally not one person I spoke to said they invest in the stock market, even when I asked about the workplace pension, about half of them said they opted out because "money now is better than money when I'm dead" which is just silly because the average life expectancy in the UK is 82... So what are they going to do to get by until they die? The state pension only? Yeah good luck with that.

One guy I spoke to who was in his mid 20's said he saves some money but in a savings account with a bank. I asked him what the interest rate was and he didn't even know... So probably like 1.5% if it's a regular high street bank which I suspect it is. I didn't have the heart to tell him he's actually losing money to inflation, not saving it... 

It just seems like not enough people are being financially responsible and taking steps to ensure they have a comfortable retirement. I absolutely promise you when you're 65 and freezing cold in your home because you can't afford to put the heating on, eating from food banks and having no money to do anything, you'll totally regret not being frugal and investing for your future. 

I think too many people live in the here and now without a seconds thought for the future. I understand that money is tight for many people but surely you can put a little bit away each month to supplement your pension when you're old?

I think financial education should be mandatory in schools with students being shown videos of old people living in poverty because they didn't invest in their retirements.

in fact its worse. Its letting some other pleb gamble with your hard earned money.

Saving yes, investing no.

And this right here is a prime example of stock market illiteracy. I'm guessing you don't know that passive index trackers exist right?

I would never give my money to a "professional" to invest... not only has history proven that the overwhelming majority of them cannot beat the index, but they charge ridiculous fees.

And with regards to "living life". You can still live life and enjoy it but don't spend every pay check every month. Of course you can if you want but when you're old and cold, hungry, living in poverty going to food banks eating 1 meal a day with damp growing in your home, don't you dare blame "the system or the government", or energy companies or anyone else for your new found poverty.

Because it'll be their fault and their fault entirely.

There is a level of contempt oozing from this post which I think is highly inappropriate.

Someone has another point of view from you.  That is entirely legitimate.

Not everyone behaves the way you think they should.  It happens.

To be fair, "in fact its worse. Its letting some other pleb gamble with your hard earned money. Saving yes, investing no." isn't exactly a credible and reasoned response to the substantial post it quoted, so it's perhaps unsurprising that the tone of the next reply reflects that....

OK I dare say the chaps at Cazenoves would object to being called plebs but I don't think there are too many patricians left in the investment field these days.

And to be fair that was not the sum total of their post.

Investing is not for everybody.  The possibility of realising a loss is there and should not be dismissed as easily as the OP seems to wish.  Stock Markets may have survived eg the 1929 Wall Street Crash - did every investor?

Hoenir

[Deleted User] said:

Altior said:

masonic said:

Had I not switched from only being a saver to being primary an investor in my twenties, I would not have reached financial independence.

It is a shame that myths about investing are still being propagated today, even right here on this forum it seems, but I think more and more people are learning that long term investment is different than the short term speculation seen in the movies.

Charges have come down significantly and access has never before been this good. It is just a shame that those who are most sceptical tend to be those who need the additional returns the most.

Of course those who cannot afford even to save are not in a position to do anything about it even if their attitude to investing is more positive.

not the same as negative equity or seeing your investments fall to half practically overnight and not bounce back.

If/when we see a deep global recession, equities significantly falling and no recovery for years, then we'll really see how well people heavily invested in equities react. 

The global stock market has survived WW1, the great depression, WW2, the cold war, cuban missile crisis, dot com bubble, 9/11, housing crash, covid, ukraine / russia war. Countless presidents and world leaders, inflation, trade wars etc and these are just the things I think of off the top of my head. It may take 1 year, 5 years, 10 years or even 15 years but I'm extremely confident it will recover, because it always has. 

Global stock markets didn't exist as such. You'd have lost your wealth in Russia, Germany, much of Eastern Europe, China, Japan for example due to historical events. For much of that period the US was still an emerging market. Came out the stronger after WW2 due to suffering the least impact. All empires eventually come to an end. 

eskbanker

DRS1 said:

eskbanker said:

DRS1 said:

[Deleted User] said:

[Deleted User] said:

[Deleted User] said:

I work in a slightly below average pay job and I've probably spoken to about 20 out of the 30 colleagues about investing, just to gauge how common it is among "regular" people. 

And literally not one person I spoke to said they invest in the stock market, even when I asked about the workplace pension, about half of them said they opted out because "money now is better than money when I'm dead" which is just silly because the average life expectancy in the UK is 82... So what are they going to do to get by until they die? The state pension only? Yeah good luck with that.

One guy I spoke to who was in his mid 20's said he saves some money but in a savings account with a bank. I asked him what the interest rate was and he didn't even know... So probably like 1.5% if it's a regular high street bank which I suspect it is. I didn't have the heart to tell him he's actually losing money to inflation, not saving it... 

It just seems like not enough people are being financially responsible and taking steps to ensure they have a comfortable retirement. I absolutely promise you when you're 65 and freezing cold in your home because you can't afford to put the heating on, eating from food banks and having no money to do anything, you'll totally regret not being frugal and investing for your future. 

I think too many people live in the here and now without a seconds thought for the future. I understand that money is tight for many people but surely you can put a little bit away each month to supplement your pension when you're old?

I think financial education should be mandatory in schools with students being shown videos of old people living in poverty because they didn't invest in their retirements.

in fact its worse. Its letting some other pleb gamble with your hard earned money.

Saving yes, investing no.

And this right here is a prime example of stock market illiteracy. I'm guessing you don't know that passive index trackers exist right?

I would never give my money to a "professional" to invest... not only has history proven that the overwhelming majority of them cannot beat the index, but they charge ridiculous fees.

And with regards to "living life". You can still live life and enjoy it but don't spend every pay check every month. Of course you can if you want but when you're old and cold, hungry, living in poverty going to food banks eating 1 meal a day with damp growing in your home, don't you dare blame "the system or the government", or energy companies or anyone else for your new found poverty.

Because it'll be their fault and their fault entirely.

There is a level of contempt oozing from this post which I think is highly inappropriate.

Someone has another point of view from you.  That is entirely legitimate.

Not everyone behaves the way you think they should.  It happens.

To be fair, "in fact its worse. Its letting some other pleb gamble with your hard earned money. Saving yes, investing no." isn't exactly a credible and reasoned response to the substantial post it quoted, so it's perhaps unsurprising that the tone of the next reply reflects that....

OK I dare say the chaps at Cazenoves would object to being called plebs but I don't think there are too many patricians left in the investment field these days.

And to be fair that was not the sum total of their post.

Investing is not for everybody.  The possibility of realising a loss is there and should not be dismissed as easily as the OP seems to wish.  Stock Markets may have survived eg the 1929 Wall Street Crash - did every investor?

I hadn't appreciated that the post had been truncated but looking back at the full wording, the extract did pretty much sum it up!  And yes, there's definitely room for informed debate about investing, but neither characterising it as 'letting someone gamble with your money' nor dismissing that view as 'illiterate' really advances the discussion....

redlightbulb

I am 40 and none of my friendship group (friends since school) invest outside minimum pension contributions (at least they are doing that I guess).  Some didn't start until auto enrolment became a thing.  I have gently encouraged them to look at their pension forecasts and increase contributions where they can but they aren't interested.
All I get back is you should live for today as could be dead tomorrow and they just joke about it and say they will probably never be able to retire.
We are all on an average wage or just below and none of us have kids.  I know there is some good disposable income there that could be put to work but they would rather spend it on expensive holidays and other things.
One of them does save but it is strictly cash another just overspends on credit cards and transfers balances around.
I don't want to be working out of choice until state pension age.
Doubt I will be able to retire mega early but hopefully I can knock a few years off.
It is a big balancing act for sure sometimes I think they have the right idea and I should just spend everything now. 
I wouldn't want to have this conversation in my workplace.  It would feel weird talking about investing/saving with colleagues. 

Albermarle

eskbanker said:

ircE said:

eskbanker said:

Albermarle said:

In a basic auto enrolment scheme, you pay 4% and your are given 4% for free.

It's 5% and 3% respectively:

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/what-you-your-employer-and-the-government-pay

Not to speak for @Albermarle but it could be argued that since the 5% is essentially post-tax 4% + 1% tax relief, then "give 4% to get 4%" is the framing that would make sense for someone who has opted out.

Sounds a bit contrived to me, and, given the dangers of myths and misinformation, it would always be best IMHO to state facts that are clearly verifiable in such circumstances, even if amplified with additional explanation about the ultimate net effect of such contributions!

Well I think 4% from you and 4% free money, is a valid way to present an argument for opting in a pension, to someone who has opted out.