Using Aclara SGM1416-B Smart Meter

Spikeygran

Thank you for both replies.  You've both been 100% more helpful than scotpower so far.   I'm used to doing washing/drying/ dishwashing, batch baking etc on low rate.  So looks like I should be safe once the storage circuit is live at 2310?.  The extra notification at 0010 (which again details low rate - so the 3rd one for low rate) is what has me mostly  worried.

If I could just get it confirmed on the actual meter once, I'd be happy to rely on the monitor.  I'm only 10 days in on the new meter.  As yet I'm not seeing anything more detailed on the website just the previous manual reading, and monthly graphs - apparently scot power can take 4 weeks to get it synced their end (or at least thats what they are saying).  I've had so much rubbish from customer service, including insisting that the app would give both readings - it doesn't of course theres no more information on the app than on the website.

I'm finding a bit difficult to check the actual meter, its a step ladder job and at my age its not sensible to do that when OH is asleep (hes a day person - funny lot lol!).  I feel a bit lied to if I'm honest.  I probably didn't have any choice as the central clock is being decommisioned, but only got the option of a smart meter. But what really sold it was not having to take a reading manually, and was given to believe I could take a manual reading via the handset.   I suppose the overall reading is available but not the important low/high ones.

I've taken a picture of the total active import screen of course it really doesn't help that there is a smear of glue (or something not removable) that is blurring the bottom right of the screen.  When the fitter arrived the meter he'd been given for the job was a 4 wire meter, which obviously wasn't suitable, so after a bit of too and fro with his line manager he fitted the new? "emergency spare" that was in the van. It was boxed at least.

There only seems to be one symbol as described on the right showing 1 but it is over LC2 .  I've put the photo on so is this showing low rate? 

Phones4Chris

@Spikeygran As you've probably deduced from the comments so far, whichever make/model of IHD, they all suffer similar deficiencies when it comes to the information displayed on E7 and other multi-rate tariffs!

I don't know if you had a "paper" copy of a "Userguide" for the Smartview3 or whether if so, it's similar to this, which you may find helpful, but it is rather biased towards those on PAYG as most of the supplier online guides seems to -
https://api.scottishpower.co.uk/cms-next/files/smart-meters/SP41347_InHomeDisplayGuide_v13artworkweb.pdf

Regarding being on Peak or Off-peak

Ildhund said:

QrizB mentioned the tiny icons in the bottom right-hand corner of the meter display screen. The upper one (labelled ı) should always be closed (o¯o). The lower one, labelled ıı, will change as the heating circuit goes live. What it changes to varies a lot, depending on how the switches inside are configured. In my case, it changes to LC1 LC2 when the heating circuit is live and the tariff has changed to offpeak. At other times, i.e. in daytime, it should be open (o´o). 

As can be seen in the photo of the meter screen that you've posted, the Night Storage/Offpeak circuits are active as the LC1 and LC2 symbols are displayed, this means the meter's ALCS (Auxiliary Load Control Switch(es)) are active - there's two in this meter, only one in most meters, but you can ignore that.
It doesn't matter which screen you are on - you can cycle through by repeat pressing Button A - { ignore B ), the LC1 & LC2 display when on low rate.

As you cycle through, as already mentioned. you'll see TOU Rate 1 and TOU Rate 2, these are the two registers whose readings you should make a note of. However as you've mentioned it's a step ladder job, I wouldn't be trying to check it daily once you've checked which one increases on Day rate and the other on Night rate which hopefully will be Rate 1 Day, Rate 2 Night, BUT some suppliers have got them the other way round so do check carefully that whichever way they are, they tally with your first bill when you get it (and what you see in the online account when it's working).

You should be able to rely on the IHD for knowing when you are on peak or off-peak as when it is displaying the unit price it should correctly show the Peak (Day) Rate or the Low (NIght) rate in p/kWh.
It does look as though yours is switching at 2310 and 0740 and that suggests you are getting 8 1/2hrs off-peak. Do you know if you normally get 8 1/2hrs continuous? I'm wondering if it may switch back to Peak rate (and the ALCS will go off) in the middle of the night for 1 1/2hrs? But it may not!

There are many different "registers" inside smart meters for storing information, and it's not unheard of that the ones that tell the IHD the time the rate changes are slightly different from the actual (in theory the meter should be programmed so they are the same but ....) however the price (tariff rate) being charged should be exactly the same as when it switches.
It's therefore possible that that 0010 that gets displayed is one of those oddities!

Spikeygran

Thank you.  

I definitely have a better understanding now, I hadn't realised LC1 & LC2 referred to offpeak & storage heating I thought that was showing  day rate and offpeak,  Its obvious now the penny has dropped I assume LC = low cost?

The only booklet I got given for the handset was for the old square style, the installer said they'd had no booklets for the new handset.. Scotpower info only really stretched to the actual meter reading procedure, a picture with the different sybols would have really helped, and I assume others struggle with the missing information too . Thank you for the link.

I've always had 8.5 up here (SW scotland) in one solid block,  it has drifted over the years and I was getting an extra 20 minutes on the old meter which switched on at 23.50 gmt.

I have managed to get a photo of the meter this morning after night rate ended, showing the wee symbols as described 1 on and 2 off. The off peak showing on TOU 2 screen is double that of the TOU 1 screen which is correct for the ration of full/low cost I normally use, so it looks like its wired the right way around, which is reassuring.

Ildhund

It's good to see that your meter is working, as far as I can see, exactly as intended. Just to clear up one thing: LC1 and LC2 are the names given to the two switches inside the meter that turn external circuits on and off. LC = Load Control. Your system only uses LC1, which is a big switch for the heaters. The other one is a little one, only there if it's needed for another circuit, which it isn't in your case. The top icon - labelled ı - is another big one for the 'everything else' circuit, and that should of course always be closed. I'm sorry if my poor attempts to reproduce the appearance of the icons weren't particularly clear.  

These switches are set entirely independent of anything else inside the meter. We do occasionally see cases where they switch at times different from the tariff, but that's normally just wrong. In most cases the tariff change times and circuit switching times should be identical. 

I hope SP are giving you a good offpeak rate if that's what you're paying for ⅔ of your usage.

QrizB

Scotland gets more than 7 off-peak hours on Economy 7, despite having the same name for the tariff! That's why you're getting 8.5.

Spikeygran

Its 13.77 at the moment.  I've seen slightly cheaper at times, but the day rate is often higher, and with standing charge and that extra hour I've not found it worth changing.  It works for us, I've always been a bit nocturnal.  OH always reckons that the Cruachan power station is on standby for when our meter switches over. 

Spikeygran

Do you think the eronious offpeak notification at 00:10  is the LC2 going on although theres no function set for it??  Theres no corresponding off notification for it like there is for the other settings.    

For example - the offpeak is going on at 23:00 and off at 07:30 and the heating circuit (controlled by LC1 ??) is going on at 23:10 and off at 07:40.

Overall I think I'm feeling a bit more confident now.  

It does beggar belief that no one at scotpower seems to have the information for any of it  and most of the staff seem to be making it up as they go along.  With most electronics you get a leaflet with diagram and functions  explained, its almost as if they just dont want you to find out? 

Ildhund

Spikeygran said:

Do you think the eronious offpeak notification at 00:10  is the LC2 going on 

That's not likely, I think. It could be that your monitor has some sort of default settings that include a standard E7 schedule (offpeak 00:00-07:00) which hasn't been removed when the meter's tariff information was updated. If the tariff is changing at 23:40 and 07:40, and the switched circuit is only on during exactly that period, I would ignore the 00:10 notification.
  

Spikeygran said:

...the offpeak is going on at 23:00 and off at 07:30 and the heating circuit (controlled by LC1 ??) is going on at 23:10 and off at 07:40.

I thought you'd already established that the offpeak tariff is changing at exactly the same times as the heating (officially known as the switched circuit, as opposed to the constant circuit) is turning on and off. To be absolutely certain, up the ladder again and try pressing button B repeatedly from 23:00. You should be able to find a display screen called Active TOU Number, with its content a big 1 or 2. It should change from 1 to 2 when the tariff changes from peak to offpeak. 
  

Spikeygran said:

... no one at scotpower seems to have the information for any of it  and most of the staff seem to be making it up as they go along. 

Not unusual, I'm afraid. As Reed put it so succinctly this morning, Don't listen to bad customer support employees, do your own investigation.  
  

Spikeygran

The cheap rate is apparently changing at 2300 but then get another cheap rate notification at 2310 when the storage heater lights come on. The grey area seems to be in the morning when the IDH notifies day rate at 0730 but the storage heating circuit is still live until 0740.  The meter is showing the LC1 LC2 screen until 0740 (from previous ladder exercise) but dont 100% trust it so as only using 1 storage at this time of year so just switching the circuit off before 0730 to be sure.  

I'll have to get the ladder out again it seems, I'm going to check the photos I took as it might save me a trip.  I'm just wondering how many elderly have fallen off ladders since they rolled out smart meters, anyone with an old property is likely to have the meters fitted high up?

I've had a look at that thread you mentioned,  and have checked the meter info via the homebrew app, which is interesting as its flagged up that the firmware is older than expected. I dont know whether they update firmware regularly - if you have to request it the chances of getting it done via customer services are nil.    I've also just installed the free Bright app to have a play with.  It does give a bit more information than the handset and its nicely presented, though you need to buy their unit to get the most detailed information.

Phones4Chris

Spikeygran said:

The cheap rate is apparently changing at 2300.................... 

The meter is showing the LC1 LC2 screen until 0740 (from previous ladder exercise) but dont 100% trust it so as only using 1 storage at this time of year so just switching the circuit off before 0730 to be sure.  

I'll have to get the ladder out again it seems, I'm going to check the photos I took as it might save me a trip. ...............

I dont know whether they update firmware regularly - if you have to request it the chances of getting it done via customer services are nil.    I've also just installed the free Bright app to have a play with.  It does give a bit more information than the handset and its nicely presented, though you need to buy their unit to get the most detailed information.

"The cheap rate is apparently changing at 2300...................." 
Where do you get that idea from? If it's the IHD, as previously explained that may be giving the "default" time range for your region and NOT when it actually switches.

The meter showing LC1 LC2 is precisely what you should trust that is showing that the off-peak circuit for the storage heaters is ACTIVE. (LC1 and LC2 switch together - unless the meter programming has been completely messed up - very very unlikely).

So yes, you'll need to get the ladder out to check as follows -

What you need to check is at 2300 the TOU Rate 1 meter reading (as previously mentioned by repeatedly pressing Button A until it displays) is still increasing with whatever you are using at the time - get your other half to put the kettle on if you only have very low usage such as lights, and that LC1 and LC2 are not displaying.
Then at 2310 LC1 and LC2 should then display and TOU Rate 1 should stop incrementing and TOU Rate 2 should start incrementing (with the storage heaters coming on and anything else you are using). TOU Rate 2 is the next Button A press after TOU Rate 1 usage Readings.
Those are the most important checks because the Rate 1 and Rate 2 Readings are what you are billed on!

You could also try this - according to @Ildhund "try pressing button B repeatedly from 23:00. You should be able to find a display screen called Active TOU Number, with its content a big 1 or 2. It should change from 1 to 2 when the tariff changes from peak to offpeak."
That switching should obviously coincide precisely with the change of which registers which are incrementing and the LC1 & LC2 switching.

Repeat all the above checks at 0730 through to 0740 when the reverse of the above should happen.
(Your storage heaters may not be actually taking any charge in at 0730 if they've already had sufficient, so you may have to get the other half to put the kettle on again to check - that saves YOU having to go up and down the ladder!).

Further points, the Firmware version is very very unlikely to have any effect on what you'll currently see and front line customer services won't have a clue. Not even worth worrying about!
The "price" showing on the IHD should change when the rate switches from Rate 1 to Rate 2 at 2310 or back at 0740 consistent with what the meter does as you are checking above. If it's changing "price" at other times, it can't be trusted, the meter is what you must go by. (PS. are you sure it's exactly 0740 and not 0738 the meter changes? Likewise 2308 instead of 2310?).

The Bright App is excellent. You don't really need to buy their box of tricks unless you really want to spend money on that to get instantaneous information (actually 10 second delay just like the IHD). It's just a means of getting a sort of replacement IHD.
The Bright App will show you what you've used at the various times, use the "Energy" display rather than the Cost and use the detailed screens rather than the "Home" page. You'll see when the load changes. You should find it tallies with your overall usage.