How do fraudsters get your bank details these days

bobblebob

Well i dont know what Halifax did as they said they cannot stop the payments going out now, and will just refund them once they do.

However looking at my online banking the new credit card is on there and both pending transactions have dropped off

Theleak250

I’ve had fraud payments on a card, ordered a brand new card and it happened again. Card never used. Sometimes they have card number generators. 

To add the card was cancelled because I reported fraud and marked as stolen which cancels out the previous card details saved anywhere.

surreysaver

lr1277 said:

What puzzles me is that as well as guessing the card number, the whoever/whatever would also have to guess the CVV for which there are 999 possibilities. 

1000 possibilities. You are forgetting 000

eskbanker

surreysaver said:

lr1277 said:

What puzzles me is that as well as guessing the card number, the whoever/whatever would also have to guess the CVV for which there are 999 possibilities. 

1000 possibilities. You are forgetting 000

Mathematically yes, but is 000 ever actually used for this purpose?

booneruk

eskbanker said:

surreysaver said:

lr1277 said:

What puzzles me is that as well as guessing the card number, the whoever/whatever would also have to guess the CVV for which there are 999 possibilities. 

1000 possibilities. You are forgetting 000

Mathematically yes, but is 000 ever actually used for this purpose?

Who knows! I'm not sure anyone would fess up to their card having that CVV, and Visa/Mastercard won't give us an answer

It might be like lottery numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 - just as likely but people don't think they could come up.

bobblebob

30hrs after reporting the fraud i had the new card details appear in online banking, the fraudulent transactions dissappear off pending (not sure how as Halifax said they would come out of my account) and a new bank card arrive

Credit to Halifax they were super efficient

pseudodox

bobblebob said:

30hrs after reporting the fraud i had the new card details appear in online banking, the fraudulent transactions dissappear off pending (not sure how as Halifax said they would come out of my account) and a new bank card arrive

Credit to Halifax they were super efficient

That's good to hear.  I also am with Halifax & could not have had my own incident dealt with any more efficiently or reassuringly.

TheBanker

pseudodox said:

Happened to me recently & no-one keeps cards more secure than I do.  My bank spotted two unusual transactions - one for £0.01 & then £300-ish, so the 1p was a test.  First 8 digits of the card number are not personal so a computer only has to compute the last 8 to get a number that works.  Bank would not reveal what drew their attention as the purchase was from somewhere I have bought from several times, but over 5 years ago.

They won't reveal what drew their attention to the purchase as this would help fraudsters to avoid detection. The chances are the person you were speaking to wouldn't even know, they'd just know that 'the system' had flagged the transaction. 'The system' uses complex models and algorithams to try to identify potential fraud whilst trying not to block too many genuine transactions.

What may have flagged these transactions is fraud reported by other customers. If 'The system' has seen more customers reporting fraud to a particular merchant, then it might flag other payments to the merchant as high risk. This is less effective if the merchant is someone like Uber where there are lots of genuine transactions, but if it's an obscure overseas retailer it's quite easy to identify frauds on other accounts. 

And in terms of investigations, it's similar. The bank are not going to spend a lot of time investigating your £300. Even if they find out who did it the police won't take a case on and the fraudsters are probably abroad anyway. But if they see large volumes of fraud to specific merchants, then the bank will investigate. This will normally involve liaising with Visa/Mastercard, other card issuers (to see if it is a wider issue) and sometimes the merchant themselves. 

pseudodox

TheBanker said:

pseudodox said:

Happened to me recently & no-one keeps cards more secure than I do.  My bank spotted two unusual transactions - one for £0.01 & then £300-ish, so the 1p was a test.  First 8 digits of the card number are not personal so a computer only has to compute the last 8 to get a number that works.  Bank would not reveal what drew their attention as the purchase was from somewhere I have bought from several times, but over 5 years ago.

They won't reveal what drew their attention to the purchase as this would help fraudsters to avoid detection. The chances are the person you were speaking to wouldn't even know, they'd just know that 'the system' had flagged the transaction. 'The system' uses complex models and algorithams to try to identify potential fraud whilst trying not to block too many genuine transactions.

What may have flagged these transactions is fraud reported by other customers. If 'The system' has seen more customers reporting fraud to a particular merchant, then it might flag other payments to the merchant as high risk. This is less effective if the merchant is someone like Uber where there are lots of genuine transactions, but if it's an obscure overseas retailer it's quite easy to identify frauds on other accounts. 

And in terms of investigations, it's similar. The bank are not going to spend a lot of time investigating your £300. Even if they find out who did it the police won't take a case on and the fraudsters are probably abroad anyway. But if they see large volumes of fraud to specific merchants, then the bank will investigate. This will normally involve liaising with Visa/Mastercard, other card issuers (to see if it is a wider issue) and sometimes the merchant themselves. 

I did not expect the bank to explain how they spotted the fraud - I actually said that to the person who I was talking to when I expressed appreciation for their quick action.  Your explanation makes perfect sense, however this was not an attempt to purchase from an overseas fly by night company but a large airline/holiday company established over decades & who millions of people purchase from on a regular basis, as I used to several years ago.

I check my bank accounts everyday so if Halifax had not spotted the issue I would have seen the erroneous transaction as soon as it appeared on my card account.  I don't use my credit card very much - maybe a couple of times a month - so have now utilised the facility to freeze it until I do want to make a purchase.  The TV advert where Dad tells his son his card doesn't let him buy a large toy is a good reminder of this option.

bobblebob

pseudodox said:

bobblebob said:

30hrs after reporting the fraud i had the new card details appear in online banking, the fraudulent transactions dissappear off pending (not sure how as Halifax said they would come out of my account) and a new bank card arrive

Credit to Halifax they were super efficient

That's good to hear.  I also am with Halifax & could not have had my own incident dealt with any more efficiently or reassuringly.

Yea what i was surprised about was how the pending transactions vanished. The guy on the phone said as they're pending, they now can't stop the money being taken but will refund soon as they hit my account

They never hit my account as Halifax managed to do something