Managed out

SIRENS

Hi 
I am being managed out by my employee due to performance. I am waiting for the formal meeting at the moment, I am unsure whether to fight or just accept it, have been in my job for 27 years and have never been on a performance plan before so I'm not really sure what has happened. At 52 I am worried that I might struggle to get another job (no formal qualifications) Have spoken to my union and understand the payout is 3 months tax free 3 months taxed, but is there any wiggle room, can I ask for more and how do I do that? 

Thank you 

MattMattMattUK

SIRENS said:

Hi 
I am being managed out by my employee due to performance. I am waiting for the formal meeting at the moment, I am unsure whether to fight or just accept it, have been in my job for 27 years and have never been on a performance plan before so I'm not really sure what has happened. 

Are you underperforming compared to your colleagues, are you coasting as you have been in the same job 27 years, could you meet the performance targets?

SIRENS said:

At 52 I am worried that I might struggle to get another job (no formal qualifications) 

What transferable skills do you have?

SIRENS said:

Have spoken to my union and understand the payout is 3 months tax free 3 months taxed, but is there any wiggle room, can I ask for more and how do I do that? 

Thank you 

There is not usually a payout if someone is managed out for performance reasons, the normal process would be to terminate their employment and pay their notice and any outstanding holiday pay, there is certainly no tax exemption for someone being managed out. 

elsien

If you’re being managed out on performance issues, what  incentive do you think there is for your employer to pay you any extra?
You don’t hold any cards to negotiate with.

Is this being managed out because you are unwell and there are capability issues, or is it being managed out simply because you are not doing the job to the required standard?
Has there been a performance improvement plan and do you accept you have been under performing?

Mr.Generous

Spend some time reading everything you can about your employers policies. Check they have followed them correctly at every stage. just an example, but I once helped a colleague appeal a dismissal following a series of warnings. verbal, written, final written, then dismissal. At the verbal warning stage the manager who conducted it had breached the policy on interviewing witnesses (leading questions and stating own opinion before getting very junior colleague to agree with him) and also using a witness for note taking that was 1 grade below the grade of my dismissed colleague.

This breached the company policy on witnesses/ note takers. These 2 breaches meant the verbal warning was invalid, the company's disciplinary process stated that the manager issuing a written warning should check the previous warning was correctly issued with all procedures followed etc ... so therefore each subsequent warning was invalid. They had to go back to stage 1 and start managing him out again. Fortunately it took so long the bullying manager moved on and my colleague lived to fight another day.

The moral is check the detail! Every single disciplinary I have ever looked at contained mistakes, some major, some minor. But always worth a look. Somehow quoting their own rules against them really works. HR / employee relations won't want to fight any tribuneral against a long serving member of staff if the procedures used were flawed - and the employee knows.

SIRENS

Hi 
thank you for your replies, in relation to my fellow employees I maybe underperforming a little on one thing (I am not selling enough) we are not targeted (they say) but really we are. I work hard and do not coast, I work with the public and know most of my customers well, I do try to meet their targets but find some of them hard to justify as the right thing to do. 

Skills wise, just normal customer service, I am good with people, use computers and am organised, general office duties really.
i have clarified that they do have agree a sum of 6 months salary for me to agree to leave.
There has been a performance plan in place, some weeks there is an improvement, then some not, but some weeks I have been in less days. My managers notes on the plan have also been up and down, so one week he is pleased the next not, but I can't control the customers that come in and what they will need. 

Thank you Mr Generous I will double check everything, I shall have a union rep with me and an independent person with me in the hearing.

TELLIT01

SIRENS said:

Hi 
thank you for your replies, in relation to my fellow employees I maybe underperforming a little on one thing (I am not selling enough) we are not targeted (they say) but really we are. I work hard and do not coast, I work with the public and know most of my customers well, I do try to meet their targets but find some of them hard to justify as the right thing to do. 

Skills wise, just normal customer service, I am good with people, use computers and am organised, general office duties really.
i have clarified that they do have agree a sum of 6 months salary for me to agree to leave.
There has been a performance plan in place, some weeks there is an improvement, then some not, but some weeks I have been in less days. My managers notes on the plan have also been up and down, so one week he is pleased the next not, but I can't control the customers that come in and what they will need. 

Thank you Mr Generous I will double check everything, I shall have a union rep with me and an independent person with me in the hearing.

The piece I have highlighted is quite telling.  The OP has been in the same job for many years and probably has the 'old fashioned' view of the relationship with the customer base.  These days, it seems all companies care about is hitting targets.  It's all about the quantity, not the quality.  I'm not saying the old ways weren't good in many ways for both the OP and the customers, just that it probably isn't the way managers want things doing now.  What the OP thinks is the 'right thing to do', is important to them but not to the employer.  They basically have two choices, either work the way management want them to work or take the payoff and find another job.  Harsh when it's put that way but true.  

I actually worked for a Government department where we were actually told that the quality/accuracy of the work we were doing (processing benefit claims) wasn't measured, just the number of claims processed per day.  Any errors would be addressed by a different section.  That section had targets for the number of errors they had to find in new processed claims!

Undervalued

Mr.Generous said:

Spend some time reading everything you can about your employers policies. Check they have followed them correctly at every stage. just an example, but I once helped a colleague appeal a dismissal following a series of warnings. verbal, written, final written, then dismissal. At the verbal warning stage the manager who conducted it had breached the policy on interviewing witnesses (leading questions and stating own opinion before getting very junior colleague to agree with him) and also using a witness for note taking that was 1 grade below the grade of my dismissed colleague.

This breached the company policy on witnesses/ note takers. These 2 breaches meant the verbal warning was invalid, the company's disciplinary process stated that the manager issuing a written warning should check the previous warning was correctly issued with all procedures followed etc ... so therefore each subsequent warning was invalid. They had to go back to stage 1 and start managing him out again. Fortunately it took so long the bullying manager moved on and my colleague lived to fight another day.

The moral is check the detail! Every single disciplinary I have ever looked at contained mistakes, some major, some minor. But always worth a look. Somehow quoting their own rules against them really works. HR / employee relations won't want to fight any tribuneral against a long serving member of staff if the procedures used were flawed - and the employee knows.

To a point, yes.

However, it is rare for company disciplinary procedures to be contractual. Normally they are worded to be a guide to how such matters would generally be handled. This is rather like the change, many years ago,  from having statutory procedures that had to be followed to the letter which, have now been replaced with far more vague requirements to conduct a fair process. ACAS issues guidelines which, if followed should ensure a legally fair process. However alternative processes could also be legally fair too.

Some years ago a barrister (or so claimed) who posted here regularly used to point out that if a company wanted to manage somebody out and was prepared to take their time they generally could, particularly if the were willing to either offer a modest settlement agreement or "keep one up their sleeves" in the event of a tribunal claim.

elsien

SIRENS said:

Hi 
thank you for your replies, in relation to my fellow employees I maybe underperforming a little on one thing (I am not selling enough) we are not targeted (they say) but really we are. I work hard and do not coast, I work with the public and know most of my customers well, I do try to meet their targets but find some of them hard to justify as the right thing to do. 

Skills wise, just normal customer service, I am good with people, use computers and am organised, general office duties really.
i have clarified that they do have agree a sum of 6 months salary for me to agree to leave.
There has been a performance plan in place, some weeks there is an improvement, then some not, but some weeks I have been in less days. My managers notes on the plan have also been up and down, so one week he is pleased the next not, but I can't control the customers that come in and what they will need. 

Thank you Mr Generous I will double check everything, I shall have a union rep with me and an independent person with me in the hearing.

Just highlighting this because this is something that would impact your colleagues as well - what customers come in and what they want.  Perhaps you need to consider what they are doing that you are not, if their performance is considered to be satisfactory? 

Marcon

SIRENS said:

Hi 
thank you for your replies, in relation to my fellow employees I maybe underperforming a little on one thing (I am not selling enough) we are not targeted (they say) but really we are. 

Thank you Mr Generous I will double check everything, I shall have a union rep with me and an independent person with me in the hearing.

If you're not hitting sales targets, then that tends to count as underperformance.

Are you sure you are allowed to have two people with you - and why do you need both, since your union rep is independent of the company?

SIRENS

We are all underperforming but I guess me more than the others, my section is very busy and I often have to deal with long queues on my own, if I take too long with each customer it can lead to shouting and verbal abuse. I suspect I am just the first of more to come. I don't think I have to have 2 they just said that I could if I wanted to. 

elsien

If that is the case I would be asking my union rep about health and safety processes to protect staff from verbal abuse and threatening behaviour. 
Shouting and abuse from who - staff or customers?