Renters' Rights Bill - Will it screw me over?

ReadySteadyPop

caprikid1 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

caprikid1 said:

"If that is the case loads of landlords will be going out of business in the coming years, this means more housing supply so a good thing really. "

Sorry am I missing something ? I appreciate you are constantly trying to push a single narrative.

How can Landlords going out of business increase the supply of property ? Do houses suddenly breed or get turned into Flats ?

Landlords are exiting the market , new landlords are not coming in, if Landlords going bust was a good thing why are rents soaring ?

All the reforms and changes are a renters nightmare, the supply of rental accommodation is decreasing, not everyone wants to own or can afford to own.

You are saying that landlords who stop being landlords keep all their properties?

OK, I know you have an agenda here.

Let me do that maths for you.

5 Rental Properties + 5 Privately owned properties = 10 Properties

No Landlord

10 Privately Owned Properties = 10 Properties ?

or 7 Privately Owned Propertied + 3 empty for sale = 10 properties but 3 families with no home.

Not sure how the supply of properties increases.

The challenge is though.

5 Rental Properties of which 2 tenants are able to buy 3 are not, where are they living ? 3 properties are sat empty as they are being sold ?

What happens is rent goes up due to a lack of Rental properties, the system broke when Thatcher sold all the council houses.

Landlords are existing the market and rents are going up IF you were right they would be going down !

There is more supply For Sale.

You have answered your own question - "Where do they live"?

Do you think that if ten people apply for a rental and only one of them gets it the rest are homeless?

There is no shortage of housing units, only a shortage of value in the price being asked for these units, someone who is prepared to properly look outside cities (and even in cities) can find much cheaper rentals than the headline rental figures (published by letting agents and mortgage debt providers) that you are following.

Rents are a function of wages, of course young people who think they need to be in London for their career or the lifestyle are going to compete for rentals and pay out two thirds of their wages for a flat somewhere central, but this isn`t the whole market, that happens maybe in job hotspots and of course the media and letting agents etc. will latch on to this for their articles and news stories because it makes a good story, it encourages people into mortgage debt to "escape the rental trap" and it encourages people to think they can make money if they get BTL debt!

If things are so good for landlords why would they care that they can no longer get 6 months money up front, surely they would have a line outside the flat waiting to replace the tenant who left after two months and they wouldn`t care about needing a financial cash cushion, or is the reality more likely that many landlords barely break even and are using up front payments to keep their business afloat?

ReadySteadyPop

FlorayG said:

Zoe02 said:

Landlords typically rent to tenants who primarily pass affordability and referencing checks. That being said, you might still secure a rental if you have a homeowner guarantor or are willing to pay six months of rent upfront.

Generally, landlords/agents will review your payslips and bank statements during the application process.

Many landlords are increasingly cautious now, especially if they have had negative experiences in the past.

This is the OP's whole point - this will not be legal with the new bill so they won't be able to offer it even if they can afford it

So they will have to take who they can get or have a void and pay double council tax or sell the property?

Section62

ReadySteadyPop said:

Section62 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

caprikid1 said:

"If that is the case loads of landlords will be going out of business in the coming years, this means more housing supply so a good thing really. "

Sorry am I missing something ? I appreciate you are constantly trying to push a single narrative.

How can Landlords going out of business increase the supply of property ? Do houses suddenly breed or get turned into Flats ?

Landlords are exiting the market , new landlords are not coming in, if Landlords going bust was a good thing why are rents soaring ?

All the reforms and changes are a renters nightmare, the supply of rental accommodation is decreasing, not everyone wants to own or can afford to own.

You are saying that landlords who stop being landlords keep all their properties?

No, they were saying that your claim "...landlords will be going out of business in the coming years, this means more housing supply..." is wrong.  "Housing supply" means the total availability of houses. A landlord owning one property 'going out of business' means there is one property up for sale - either to an owner occupier or another landlord.

The one property doesn't become two, 1 is still 1.  The housing supply doesn't change for the better or worse.

Landlords selling up could mean more houses for owner-occupiers to buy, but only if other landlords don't purchase them.  Personally I expect the rental market will shift from individual landlords over to company landlords - we'll see a shift from people investing directly in rental property over to investing in companies owning property.  Some might feel a more commercial (less amateur) approach in the rental market will be a good thing.  I'm not one of them.

People have been saying this for a long time, I think the commercial property meltdown will make many (sensible) companies wary of getting into rentals (less sensible companies no longer have the same access to cheap debt that they once had and will probably go out of business anyway)

The commercial property 'meltdown' is largely a product of changed working and shopping patterns meaning the need for commercial property is reducing.

Are you anticipating a significant reversal in population growth anytime soon?

ReadySteadyPop said:

I mean there will be more supply for sale, there is no shortage of supply, you don`t think that if 20 (or 50 people as some landlords are claiming) people view a flat and one gets "chosen" that the other 19 are homeless do you? All that happens is that they go on living where they already live and didn`t get a particular flat that they wanted for some reason.

Your assessment seems at odds with the government's assessment of the housing situation. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrjd04466go

"England has a housing crisis. Very few disagree. There are simply not enough safe, affordable, decent homes where people want to live."

"Homelessness is at record levels..."

"The new Labour government believes the key is to build more houses. It has promised an extra 1.5 million in England across the five-year Parliament..."

Your "19" will be a combination of people who will stay where they currently live, people living in unsuitable accommodation (e.g. overcrowded/unfit/wrong location), people living with parents/friends, and some in temporary accommodation (e.g. vans/B&B/hotels/boats etc)

The odds of 19 out of 20 already having a home which is adequate for their needs is probably a lot less than you seem to think.

FlorayG

saajan_12 said:

In a word, yes - there will still likely be houses you can rent, but likely at a higher price or restricted to the less desirable properties. 

Previously, I'd see a working tenant vs non working with a strong guarantor vs student / recent graduate and able to pay a couple of months ahead as relatively even, and I might choose based on other smaller things eg start date, likelihood of staying longer, or rent amount offered. With the changes, paying ahead won't be allowed so that candidate would be a last resort and unless they offered a chunk more rent, it wouldn't make sense to pick them. If I had a less desirable property, perhaps that's the only person looking as those with a stronger income or guarantor are now first in line for the more desirable properties. 

There are things that are wrong with the rental market.. having an initial fixed term or rent upfront is not one of them. 

That's going to be illegal as well. You will have to rent at the price you advertise

FlorayG

ReadySteadyPop said:

FlorayG said:

Zoe02 said:

Landlords typically rent to tenants who primarily pass affordability and referencing checks. That being said, you might still secure a rental if you have a homeowner guarantor or are willing to pay six months of rent upfront.

Generally, landlords/agents will review your payslips and bank statements during the application process.

Many landlords are increasingly cautious now, especially if they have had negative experiences in the past.

This is the OP's whole point - this will not be legal with the new bill so they won't be able to offer it even if they can afford it

So they will have to take who they can get or have a void and pay double council tax or sell the property?

Now you're not making any sense

ReadySteadyPop

Section62 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

Section62 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

caprikid1 said:

"If that is the case loads of landlords will be going out of business in the coming years, this means more housing supply so a good thing really. "

Sorry am I missing something ? I appreciate you are constantly trying to push a single narrative.

How can Landlords going out of business increase the supply of property ? Do houses suddenly breed or get turned into Flats ?

Landlords are exiting the market , new landlords are not coming in, if Landlords going bust was a good thing why are rents soaring ?

All the reforms and changes are a renters nightmare, the supply of rental accommodation is decreasing, not everyone wants to own or can afford to own.

You are saying that landlords who stop being landlords keep all their properties?

No, they were saying that your claim "...landlords will be going out of business in the coming years, this means more housing supply..." is wrong.  "Housing supply" means the total availability of houses. A landlord owning one property 'going out of business' means there is one property up for sale - either to an owner occupier or another landlord.

The one property doesn't become two, 1 is still 1.  The housing supply doesn't change for the better or worse.

Landlords selling up could mean more houses for owner-occupiers to buy, but only if other landlords don't purchase them.  Personally I expect the rental market will shift from individual landlords over to company landlords - we'll see a shift from people investing directly in rental property over to investing in companies owning property.  Some might feel a more commercial (less amateur) approach in the rental market will be a good thing.  I'm not one of them.

People have been saying this for a long time, I think the commercial property meltdown will make many (sensible) companies wary of getting into rentals (less sensible companies no longer have the same access to cheap debt that they once had and will probably go out of business anyway)

The commercial property 'meltdown' is largely a product of changed working and shopping patterns meaning the need for commercial property is reducing.

Are you anticipating a significant reversal in population growth anytime soon?

ReadySteadyPop said:

I mean there will be more supply for sale, there is no shortage of supply, you don`t think that if 20 (or 50 people as some landlords are claiming) people view a flat and one gets "chosen" that the other 19 are homeless do you? All that happens is that they go on living where they already live and didn`t get a particular flat that they wanted for some reason.

Your assessment seems at odds with the government's assessment of the housing situation. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrjd04466go

"England has a housing crisis. Very few disagree. There are simply not enough safe, affordable, decent homes where people want to live."

"Homelessness is at record levels..."

"The new Labour government believes the key is to build more houses. It has promised an extra 1.5 million in England across the five-year Parliament..."

Your "19" will be a combination of people who will stay where they currently live, people living in unsuitable accommodation (e.g. overcrowded/unfit/wrong location), people living with parents/friends, and some in temporary accommodation (e.g. vans/B&B/hotels/boats etc)

The odds of 19 out of 20 already having a home which is adequate for their needs is probably a lot less than you seem to think.

Why then are landlords supposedly trying to exit in large numbers, shouldn`t they be buying MORE  property to cash in on all this desperate need?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/homes-property/how-bosses-are-going-to-get-empty-homes-back-into-use-as-more-than-800-vacant-across-one-lancashire-district/ar-BB1rmZs6

If the WFH thing really is here to stay (I am not convinced that the average worker will get away with this for much longer, someone very key to a business maybe, not replaceable employees though) surely the ex- commercial stuff will also become housing, meaning even more supply?

Robbo66

ReadySteadyPop said:

caprikid1 said:

"If that is the case loads of landlords will be going out of business in the coming years, this means more housing supply so a good thing really. "

Sorry am I missing something ? I appreciate you are constantly trying to push a single narrative.

How can Landlords going out of business increase the supply of property ? Do houses suddenly breed or get turned into Flats ?

Landlords are exiting the market , new landlords are not coming in, if Landlords going bust was a good thing why are rents soaring ?

All the reforms and changes are a renters nightmare, the supply of rental accommodation is decreasing, not everyone wants to own or can afford to own.

You are saying that landlords who stop being landlords keep all their properties?

That's not what is being said at all, Landlords are selling up so the rental market is losing a property and as such someone is being displaced and the chances of them finding n alternative will decreases as supply diminishes

ReadySteadyPop

Robbo66 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

caprikid1 said:

"If that is the case loads of landlords will be going out of business in the coming years, this means more housing supply so a good thing really. "

Sorry am I missing something ? I appreciate you are constantly trying to push a single narrative.

How can Landlords going out of business increase the supply of property ? Do houses suddenly breed or get turned into Flats ?

Landlords are exiting the market , new landlords are not coming in, if Landlords going bust was a good thing why are rents soaring ?

All the reforms and changes are a renters nightmare, the supply of rental accommodation is decreasing, not everyone wants to own or can afford to own.

You are saying that landlords who stop being landlords keep all their properties?

That's not what is being said at all, Landlords are selling up so the rental market is losing a property and as such someone is being displaced and the chances of them finding n alternative will decreases as supply diminishes

I can`t think of a time when there were more To Let/For Sale signs on display to be honest, it would be quite a number of years ago, what actually seems to be happening is that landlords are losing tenants as jobs get harder to find but still can`t sell!

caprikid1

"I can`t think of a time when there were more To Let/For Sale signs on display to be honest,"

I can't think of a time when there has been less, or do you wish to publish actual substantiate empirical data or just make things up to fit your narrative ?

"As a result, letting agents are now receiving an average of 25 email and phone enquiries from prospective tenants for every home available to rent. This has risen from eight enquiries per property in 2019, and five more than in May of this year."

Number of rental enquiries still double pre-pandemic, as rents predicted to rise 3% - Rightmove Press Centre

Letting agents are receiving 25 tenant enquiries for every rental home | Property news

Don't let facts get in the way of your mission.

PacketofCrisps

So let me get this straight, I understand that this amendment to the renters bill makes it illegal for landlords/agencies to demand more than 1 months rent but does it also make it illegal for a renter like myself to offer to pay say 6 months rent up front?