Lose house when taken into care?

teddysmum

There is very little choice where we live, unless you are really well off, as most care homes are full. My husband and some friends were looking on behalf of a mutual friend, who was in hospital. Only one place, in the whole area, didn't offer dementia care and the others were full, but mainly with dementia care clients.

The friend refused, but was put in a 'test' home, to see whether he would be best suited with home or or residential care. The place was horrid (there is film of it on Facebook) and Paul refused to leave his room, even for food, but suddenly died in his sleep, after a couple of days.

Care homes can change, too. With my sister, I visited or investigated care homes (35 years ago; how time flies) for our dad, after he was put in a horrible but new home, with no choice, as he was deemed unsafe and we found a lovely place, built from an old pub, with an extension .Prices were good and they included hairdressing, newspapers, day trips and toiletries, which others charged extra for. The rooms were colour co-ordinated and the furniture was was lovely (modern but real wood.) A number of years later, it must have been sold and was put under special measures, as unfit and unsafe.

I have every respect for people with dementia, which can affect even the most educated, but it is so unfair to the people without mental problems, as they are in the minority and isolated unless they wish to try, craft or cooking, where there is no instruction. I dread going into such a place, as that would be my fate if I survive my husband, as our sons have no spare room and work, because I picture the video of the place where Paul was put: a few ladies knitting or colouring and one eating piles of chips, while the others sat in a semicircle mainly ignoring, but some using whistles tambourines and drums, to accompany two young men singing Beatles songs. (At least that was an advance? on what we once giggled about, while passing the entertainment venue of a place hosting a number of coachloads of pensioners. Would we have to listen to Vera Lynn songs, when we were older, as pensioner entertainment had been the same for years ?

1404

teddysmum said:

There is very little choice where we live, unless you are really well off, as most care homes are full. My husband and some friends were looking on behalf of a mutual friend, who was in hospital. Only one place, in the whole area, didn't offer dementia care and the others were full, but mainly with dementia care clients.

The friend refused, but was put in a 'test' home, to see whether he would be best suited with home or or residential care. The place was horrid (there is film of it on Facebook) and Paul refused to leave his room, even for food, but suddenly died in his sleep, after a couple of days.

Care homes can change, too. With my sister, I visited or investigated care homes (35 years ago; how time flies) for our dad, after he was put in a horrible but new home, with no choice, as he was deemed unsafe and we found a lovely place, built from an old pub, with an extension .Prices were good and they included hairdressing, newspapers, day trips and toiletries, which others charged extra for. The rooms were colour co-ordinated and the furniture was was lovely (modern but real wood.) A number of years later, it must have been sold and was put under special measures, as unfit and unsafe.

I have every respect for people with dementia, which can affect even the most educated, but it is so unfair to the people without mental problems, as they are in the minority and isolated unless they wish to try, craft or cooking, where there is no instruction. I dread going into such a place, as that would be my fate if I survive my husband, as our sons have no spare room and work, because I picture the video of the place where Paul was put: a few ladies knitting or colouring and one eating piles of chips, while the others sat in a semicircle mainly ignoring, but some using whistles tambourines and drums, to accompany two young men singing Beatles songs. (At least that was an advance? on what we once giggled about, while passing the entertainment venue of a place hosting a number of coachloads of pensioners. Would we have to listen to Vera Lynn songs, when we were older, as pensioner entertainment had been the same for years ?

I guess it makes sense that homes are mostly occupied by dementia patients because if you have your faculties then you are probably less likely to need such care.

There's no dementia in my family that I'm aware of (assuming it's in some way hereditary).  Nor is longevity something we seem to have much of.

elsien

Physical ill health, mobility problems, stroke etc can all leave you with your faculties but be unable to manage at home.
My grandmother had all her marbles but had to go into residential care because she was losing her sight and because of mobility issues she needed two carers on visits and she couldn’t afford it. 

Savvy_Sue

elsien said:

Physical ill health, mobility problems, stroke etc can all leave you with your faculties but be unable to manage at home.
My grandmother had all her marbles but had to go into residential care because she was losing her sight and because of mobility issues she needed two carers on visits and she couldn’t afford it. 

And actually, someone may be better off in a residential setting than at home because it can be very isolating. 

My relative has progressively lost mobility because of an inoperable brain tumour. At home, there would be carers coming in, possibly at unpredictable and not necessarily convenient times. There's an adult child in the house, but still working, so unable to be much company during the day, and neither would want to be in each other's pocket the whole time. 

And that would be pretty much it! Maybe a few visitors, but day to day it would be carers, and the other adult - no external stimulation because of the mobility issues, struggling to use the phone because of deafness. 

Whereas in the home, there's a regular stream of people popping in - the cleaner offering cups of tea, the carers, the nurses, the physio, the activities team! Initially the resident opposite was mobile and would pick up all the gossip and share it - sadly (for us) they've now moved out into Very Sheltered housing. We made friends with the relatives of one of the others too. 

I think if I was looking for a facility again, I'd want to know how many activities coordinators the home employed, and what they were currently offering. I mean, I've never been one to have my nails painted, but it would be lovely to think that someone would come in regularly and trim them and make them look nice. The lead Coordinator is an absolute hoot: he played Santa throughout the festive season, and has the figure for it, and wore a different very bright Christmas shirt every day. Last week he became an Elvis impersonator, if you can imagine it! He should NOT give up the day job, but he's definitely good at that! 

The other professional I'm really glad they have is the physio. I don't know how often they come in, but they're doing their best to keep everyone moving as much as is possible, and they've been really helpful in suggesting and providing ways and means of getting our relative in and out of a car! 

teddysmum

My dad had Parkinson's and the beginnings of dementia, but one of his sisters and a sister-in-law had very bad arthritis. There didn't seem to be many people with dementia back then, but our dad. who was always modest, was very embarrassed by a woman who walked around, removed her wet pad and put it under another client's chair, then making sure it was noticed, she blamed that poor person.

1404

teddysmum said:

My dad had Parkinson's and the beginnings of dementia, but one of his sisters and a sister-in-law had very bad arthritis. There didn't seem to be many people with dementia back then, but our dad. who was always modest, was very embarrassed by a woman who walked around, removed her wet pad and put it under another client's chair, then making sure it was noticed, she blamed that poor person.

I guess care homes are the same as schools, prisons and work places in that regard:  you find yourself having to share your life with people who aren't pleasant and with whom you'd never choose to spend any time with under normal circumstances.  The person who did that with the wet pad has possibly been like that their whole life.

elsien

My grandmother hated her care home. Well, she hated being in care and I thought her care home was appalling and reported it to everyone I could think of. 
She went from being a very private 92 year old lady to having to tolerate being given intimate personal care by two men.  And firstly being in a room with a call bell outside that rang continuously day and night, to being in a room next to someone who shouted day and night. And there were very little in the way of staff - the place was like the Marie Celeste on the staffing front - which is when I discovered that there isn't a legal minimum, The standard simply states enough staff to provide "adequate care."

She had the  money to live somewhere better. All I will say on that front is choose your LPA wisely folks - she had capacity but relied on the LPA who chose the home based on their convenience not on her needs. 

EnPointe

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

This is absolutely not the case. 

someone  who is relant on state funding will be placed in  a care home   with a  vacancy  which accepts  the  council funding rate , this can be a  outside the LA  area if you are in a unitary  area  (  rather  harder  in County  area) 

someone  who is paying for the residential / social care element of their placement  has far greater  choice 

lisyloo

1404 said:

lisyloo said:

Flugelhorn said:

lisyloo said:

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

Absolutely not.
I've checked about 20 homes in the Bristol/Bath area and my sister-in-law swore that her mother was going into some "over her dead body". Those were the ones where people were shivering without a blanket whilst the staff were chatting on their breaks, dirty toilets, stench or urine, dressings hanging off.

They also wanted to put FIL 15 miles from MIL for financial reasons after 60 years of marriage when a place was available together. We fought and won but I wouldn't want to be someone without strong advocates fighting for me.

I accept it's different in different areas/homes but you are wrong about "will get the same".

the things is that ultimately you might get the same - if you are in a self funding place and run out of money you may have to move if no-one pays the top up. 

I have seen lots of care homes and nursing homes (usually evenings, weekends and the middle of the night when it really matters)  and TBH some of the council run ones were rather nicer places than some of the private ones - more staff, more engagement, more events, staff who actually knew what was going on (doe help if you are the GP sometimes) 

I am happy to agree with "might" get the same (if fortunate i.e. one of these nice homes close to where they want to be and a place becomes available when they need it - a lot of them have waiting lists).
In the Bristol/Bath area the chances would be small.
There are some state of the art places that are purpose built e.g. wide corridors for a client to have assistance of 2 people when walking. They are fabulous but expensive.
Some others are a couple of homes knocked together and the are not an ideal layout.
If you have dimentia and/o are incontinent and/or need nursing (as opposed to residential) then the choices are reduced.

Absolutely do not agree with "will" get the same as someone who has choices.

Unless the person going into care is particularly wealthy, the funds from their assets will soon run out. 

How many people who are stripped of their assets to pay for their care actually fund the entirety of their care with those assets? My guess is few. The tax payer then picks up the rest of the bill.

It's another way of the state asset-stripping the populous. 

Average length of time in a care home is 26 months (they are often frail upon entry).
People with homes can usually cover it.
There are exceptions of course.

lisyloo

1404 said:

When someone is using a care home from their own assets, and that care home is better than a council care home...   are they moved to a council care home when their funds run out?

When we put my MIL in a home we made sure she was somewhere that accepted Local authority clients and would not be moved.

If they are in a very expensive place then yes.
If they go somewhere that does not accept local authority client then yes.

You can plan for this as we did by going somewhere than has both private and local authority clients.