Lose house when taken into care?

Flugelhorn

lisyloo said:

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

Absolutely not.
I've checked about 20 homes in the Bristol/Bath area and my sister-in-law swore that her mother was going into some "over her dead body". Those were the ones where people were shivering without a blanket whilst the staff were chatting on their breaks, dirty toilets, stench or urine, dressings hanging off.

They also wanted to put FIL 15 miles from MIL for financial reasons after 60 years of marriage when a place was available together. We fought and won but I wouldn't want to be someone without strong advocates fighting for me.

I accept it's different in different areas/homes but you are wrong about "will get the same".

the things is that ultimately you might get the same - if you are in a self funding place and run out of money you may have to move if no-one pays the top up. 

I have seen lots of care homes and nursing homes (usually evenings, weekends and the middle of the night when it really matters)  and TBH some of the council run ones were rather nicer places than some of the private ones - more staff, more engagement, more events, staff who actually knew what was going on (doe help if you are the GP sometimes) 

lisyloo

1404 said:

comeandgo said:

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

That’s certainly not true where I am.  Those that can pay have choice.

Of course its true. Someone who's been on benefits their whole life (be it through choice or not) will get the same care for free at the end of their life as someone who's worked and gets stripped of their assets to pay for it. 

They will get get minimal basic care to keep them alive. They might be cold, dirty etc. (I've seen it). They won't have the choice of being close to friends and family or even a spouse.

That absolutely is not the same as people who have funds who can choose to have their hair done, play bingo, have organised activities daily and go out for day trips and can choose their home and be close to friends and family. They can even have their favourite tipple. Totally chalk and cheese.

State provision is a safety net to keep people alive. Anyone with a choice would not choose some of these place.

The wife and 2 adult children also have the option of looking after their father.

lisyloo

Flugelhorn said:

lisyloo said:

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

Absolutely not.
I've checked about 20 homes in the Bristol/Bath area and my sister-in-law swore that her mother was going into some "over her dead body". Those were the ones where people were shivering without a blanket whilst the staff were chatting on their breaks, dirty toilets, stench or urine, dressings hanging off.

They also wanted to put FIL 15 miles from MIL for financial reasons after 60 years of marriage when a place was available together. We fought and won but I wouldn't want to be someone without strong advocates fighting for me.

I accept it's different in different areas/homes but you are wrong about "will get the same".

the things is that ultimately you might get the same - if you are in a self funding place and run out of money you may have to move if no-one pays the top up. 

I have seen lots of care homes and nursing homes (usually evenings, weekends and the middle of the night when it really matters)  and TBH some of the council run ones were rather nicer places than some of the private ones - more staff, more engagement, more events, staff who actually knew what was going on (doe help if you are the GP sometimes) 

I am happy to agree with "might" get the same (if fortunate i.e. one of these nice homes close to where they want to be and a place becomes available when they need it - a lot of them have waiting lists).
In the Bristol/Bath area the chances would be small.
There are some state of the art places that are purpose built e.g. wide corridors for a client to have assistance of 2 people when walking. They are fabulous but expensive.
Some others are a couple of homes knocked together and the are not an ideal layout.
If you have dimentia and/o are incontinent and/or need nursing (as opposed to residential) then the choices are reduced.

Absolutely do not agree with "will" get the same as someone who has choices.

1404

lisyloo said:

1404 said:

comeandgo said:

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

That’s certainly not true where I am.  Those that can pay have choice.

Of course its true. Someone who's been on benefits their whole life (be it through choice or not) will get the same care for free at the end of their life as someone who's worked and gets stripped of their assets to pay for it. 

They will get get minimal basic care to keep them alive. They might be cold, dirty etc. (I've seen it). They won't have the choice of being close to friends and family or even a spouse.

That absolutely is not the same as people who have funds who can choose to have their hair done, play bingo, have organised activities daily and go out for day trips and can choose their home and be close to friends and family. They can even have their favourite tipple. Totally chalk and cheese.

State provision is a safety net to keep people alive. Anyone with a choice would not choose some of these place.

The wife and 2 adult children also have the option of looking after their father.

If so, then we'll find out what type of people they are. 

1404

lisyloo said:

Flugelhorn said:

lisyloo said:

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

Absolutely not.
I've checked about 20 homes in the Bristol/Bath area and my sister-in-law swore that her mother was going into some "over her dead body". Those were the ones where people were shivering without a blanket whilst the staff were chatting on their breaks, dirty toilets, stench or urine, dressings hanging off.

They also wanted to put FIL 15 miles from MIL for financial reasons after 60 years of marriage when a place was available together. We fought and won but I wouldn't want to be someone without strong advocates fighting for me.

I accept it's different in different areas/homes but you are wrong about "will get the same".

the things is that ultimately you might get the same - if you are in a self funding place and run out of money you may have to move if no-one pays the top up. 

I have seen lots of care homes and nursing homes (usually evenings, weekends and the middle of the night when it really matters)  and TBH some of the council run ones were rather nicer places than some of the private ones - more staff, more engagement, more events, staff who actually knew what was going on (doe help if you are the GP sometimes) 

I am happy to agree with "might" get the same (if fortunate i.e. one of these nice homes close to where they want to be and a place becomes available when they need it - a lot of them have waiting lists).
In the Bristol/Bath area the chances would be small.
There are some state of the art places that are purpose built e.g. wide corridors for a client to have assistance of 2 people when walking. They are fabulous but expensive.
Some others are a couple of homes knocked together and the are not an ideal layout.
If you have dimentia and/o are incontinent and/or need nursing (as opposed to residential) then the choices are reduced.

Absolutely do not agree with "will" get the same as someone who has choices.

Unless the person going into care is particularly wealthy, the funds from their assets will soon run out. 

How many people who are stripped of their assets to pay for their care actually fund the entirety of their care with those assets? My guess is few. The tax payer then picks up the rest of the bill.

It's another way of the state asset-stripping the populous. 

KxMx

Oh dear. 

It's not just about where you end up for care, but when you go into residential care.

For those without assets, it can be years past when they really needed it, because the Council wouldn't pay.

A friends granddad with dementia (she has POA) was kept at home for 3 years with 4 daily care visits (and the authorities pressured the family to call in on top). 

Many professionals were involved and all said he needed a care home, apart from those who would have to pay of course. 

The gentleman had a bad fall and the Hospital refused discharge to anywhere but a care home. 

He's not even safe now- regular assessments are made as to whether he could manage in sheltered housing - one went quite far before my friend managed to stop it.

He's in a home his family are happy with, a good standard of care and somewhere that is a good fit for him. 

But all concerned would rather it happened quite a bit sooner! 

Flugelhorn

1404 said:

lisyloo said:

1404 said:

comeandgo said:

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

That’s certainly not true where I am.  Those that can pay have choice.

Of course its true. Someone who's been on benefits their whole life (be it through choice or not) will get the same care for free at the end of their life as someone who's worked and gets stripped of their assets to pay for it. 

They will get get minimal basic care to keep them alive. They might be cold, dirty etc. (I've seen it). They won't have the choice of being close to friends and family or even a spouse.

That absolutely is not the same as people who have funds who can choose to have their hair done, play bingo, have organised activities daily and go out for day trips and can choose their home and be close to friends and family. They can even have their favourite tipple. Totally chalk and cheese.

State provision is a safety net to keep people alive. Anyone with a choice would not choose some of these place.

The wife and 2 adult children also have the option of looking after their father.

If so, then we'll find out what type of people they are. 

who knows what this gentleman is like after his probably brain damage - maybe has limited mobility / needs hoisting / transferring  / feeding - maybe he gets confused  / angry / lost / has changed personality - maybe he can't be left in the house alone (someone always has to be there). 

as I say, who knows but may be more than they can cope with for anything but a short time 

1404

When someone is using a care home from their own assets, and that care home is better than a council care home...   are they moved to a council care home when their funds run out?

KxMx

It very much varies from case to case. 

In some instances yes. 

In some instances no, the council pay the maximum they are willing and family top up the difference- there is no obligation for the family to do this although often it's suggested otherwise by social services. 

Or a successful case is made that a move would be extremely detrimental to the resident, so the Council then pay up in full to avoid moving them. 

Savvy_Sue

1404 said:

lisyloo said:

Flugelhorn said:

lisyloo said:

1404 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

If the care home fees can be paid from pensions, rental income etc then there will be no need to sell anything. But one way or another, unless he gets CHC funding, the care home fees will need to be paid.

Amazing, isn't it, that people who've barely worked a day in their lives will get the same care for free at the end of their lives.

Absolutely not.
I've checked about 20 homes in the Bristol/Bath area and my sister-in-law swore that her mother was going into some "over her dead body". Those were the ones where people were shivering without a blanket whilst the staff were chatting on their breaks, dirty toilets, stench or urine, dressings hanging off.

They also wanted to put FIL 15 miles from MIL for financial reasons after 60 years of marriage when a place was available together. We fought and won but I wouldn't want to be someone without strong advocates fighting for me.

I accept it's different in different areas/homes but you are wrong about "will get the same".

the things is that ultimately you might get the same - if you are in a self funding place and run out of money you may have to move if no-one pays the top up. 

I have seen lots of care homes and nursing homes (usually evenings, weekends and the middle of the night when it really matters)  and TBH some of the council run ones were rather nicer places than some of the private ones - more staff, more engagement, more events, staff who actually knew what was going on (doe help if you are the GP sometimes) 

I am happy to agree with "might" get the same (if fortunate i.e. one of these nice homes close to where they want to be and a place becomes available when they need it - a lot of them have waiting lists).
In the Bristol/Bath area the chances would be small.
There are some state of the art places that are purpose built e.g. wide corridors for a client to have assistance of 2 people when walking. They are fabulous but expensive.
Some others are a couple of homes knocked together and the are not an ideal layout.
If you have dimentia and/o are incontinent and/or need nursing (as opposed to residential) then the choices are reduced.

Absolutely do not agree with "will" get the same as someone who has choices.

Unless the person going into care is particularly wealthy, the funds from their assets will soon run out. 

How many people who are stripped of their assets to pay for their care actually fund the entirety of their care with those assets? My guess is few. The tax payer then picks up the rest of the bill.

It's another way of the state asset-stripping the populous. 

Define 'soon'? I have a relative who's been in a care home for nearly two years, paying for themselves once the local authority got their act together to carry out the financial assessment. It's not a top of the range place, but we're definitely not a 'wealthy' family. There should be enough assets to last, but since they've already outlived the original life expectancy by some margin, who knows? 

The point is, we have choice, and we wouldn't be afraid to use it if we weren't happy (yes, we have Power of Attorney). 

You seem to want a family with three houses to have Dad's care fully paid for by the state, even though he no longer needs any of those houses himself, and even though he was living separately from his spouse. If none of the houses are actually his, and he has no other assets, fair enough. Also fair enough if he is entitled to CHC funding. Otherwise ... why should he NOT contribute to the costs of his care? Why should I pay towards his care through my taxes?