Universal Credit - Deprevation of Capital

Muttleythefrog

[Deleted User] said:

I'm not sure if this is even an issue.

I can think of a handful of pubs where the regular patrons (claiming UC) spend huge amounts on alcohol, tobacco, pool/fruit machines, drugs and take-away/delivery food. I'm sure it's the same across the country.

One hundred pounds a day, three thousand a month, it seems an entirely plausible spend.
There must be tens of thousands leading similar lifestyles.

I'm not suggesting that this is typical of UC claimants but it's very apparent that it does happen, and probably in numbers great enough that it would be near on impossible for DWP to investigate or bring to account.

I don't think OP has much to worry about if they have a few quid in their wallet...

Yes I used to run a pub... but it's very atypical of this person never mind UC claimants with a family.... history of posting sheds plenty light... including that this is not the first method they've used to try to 'keep their balance below £6k' over recent years... the issue has come up again because they're heading towards the end of their transitional protection year. At the end of the day all we can remind them... is that this withdrawn cash unspent becomes capital... and deliberately undeclared capital that affects entitlement becomes fraud if then receiving monies not entitled to. If they're spending all this cash then that's fine... but they've effectively admitted with terminology, history and omission that's not what is happening... that's not what their psychology is demonstrating.. it's not how they approach moneysaving... it's not what their anxiety is revealing. Almost a year ago they had their question answered... correctly by Spoonie... which led to the current NEW behaviour for the new circumstances coming ("I want us to get into a habit of keeping us below this amount as this will help us going forward from next year").. they're not here to learn the rules..they've done that... they're here to understand the risks they're soon going to be running... something they've tested the boundaries with on the issue of deprivation of capital in query to members before in disposing of monies through childrens' savings accounts (whether they followed through with this plan and to what degree if so I do not know!).

Muttleythefrog

Murphybear said:

Being a bit kinder it is usually cheaper for a small business to deal in cash.  Using one of the machines that takes plastic can be expensive to rent or buy and the charges for using them is high.  We found this out when we ran our own business 

Yes indeed... but I don't think it'll explain the realities here which seem quite clear to me... that the fight to keep "balance" below £6k has been an ongoing issue for years and requiring of creativity! That creativity has ended up with, now the issue is again pressing due to transitional protection ending soon, the go to solution most probably use... it has less flaws than many but it carries major risks like fire (slightly improved since the switch to plastic!)..lol

born_again

atlantis187 said:

born_again said:

atlantis187 said:

If it was ever queried and we didn't have any receipts to show what can they LEGALLY do about this? as we've not actually broken any rules.

On the flip side, you can not prove that you did not.
Proof will be king from your side.

Doubt on theirs would be enough to launch a fraud investigation against you claim.

and what will the fraud investigation show? That we are spending our money in the way we are allowed to.

I'll let you ponder on what they can do.

But is this not a moot point given you having a 2nd property, so once TP ends, so will UC?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6562904/uc-transitional-protection#latest

kaMelo

It's not that you've openly asked how to, or stated you're looking to defraud, but after looking at your previous posts they don't half read like someone asking lots of questions to work out what you can do and just about stay on the right side of the line, That may or may not be the case but that is certainly how it reads to me.

Going back to your original question, no the DWP can't really question what you're spending £3000 per month on but they could certainly question whether you are actually spending all the cash you withdraw or just stuffing it under the mattress (other places are also available). That's why purchase receipts will be very helpful for you should that ever come to pass. Surely you have those for things like gas, electric, water, council tax, house insurance etc.

atlantis187 said:

For the others with the snide comments suggesting we are panicking due to TP ending sorry to disappoint you we are not coming to end of the TP we have just gone onto UC last month.

 One of those statements are incorrect.

atlantis187

Yes the original date was for April but got a few extensions on this.

We will close the thread here as I think I have got the answer to my original question. 
From the helpful answers I take it:

We can spend the money how we like through card or cash.
They don't have any legal basis to ask for any proof or receipts but it is best to keep these to save any headaches.

LightFlare

atlantis187 said:

Yes the original date was for April but got a few extensions on this.

We will close the thread here as I think I have got the answer to my original question. 
From the helpful answers I take it:

We can spend the money how we like through card or cash.
They don't have any legal basis to ask for any proof or receipts but it is best to keep these to save any headaches.

That’s not what has been said at all

I don’t know what the average monthly expenditure of a household in the UK actually is.
But I would hazard a guess that most are below what you say you are withdrawing just in cash alone.
To say I am intrigued is an understatement- but it’s your business.
The DWP however have significantly more “powers” to satisfy any intrigue from their side.
Generally speaking - people who have nothing to hide don’t have a problem with proving their side, especially when the stakes and consequences can be quite severe