bank account refused - for sectioned son despite having DWP appointee letter, no photo ID though

lesleyfromkent

Hi there - can any of you helpful folk explain this for me?
I have tried using my DWP Appointeeship letter to open a bank account for my son (in secure mental institution) in his name with me as Appointee. I explained from the start that there was no photo ID (driving card and passport stolen last year) and wasn't going to be as he's in a secure facility. I needed to control what he was spending on (he was purchasing illegal items and having them sent to me). I looked at the court of protection - but too expensive ongoing (this is a long story which I won't bore you with, suffice that I took relevant legal advice).
I then thought of the Appointee bank account - wanting to keep his money safe and separate. After being put through documentation hoops, yesterday I was told that because he was "remote", which I take to mean not going to be there at bank in person, for foreseeable future, then they could not offer an Appointee bank account. Initially I was told simply to turn up with my passport and the DWP letter, weeks later we get here. 
Can anyone explain to me what is going on? My son cannot be the only mental inpatient without photo ID - is it the case that everyone with the DWP appointeeship simply gives up and uses a bank account of their own?
Thanks in advance.

born_again

From a banks point of view I can see why they have declined, as other than DWP letter there is no other proof of the individual. 
Where does his money go now?

xylophone

Seek the assistance of his key worker at the secure facility?

lesleyfromkent

born_again said:

From a banks point of view I can see why they have declined, as other than DWP letter there is no other proof of the individual. 
Where does his money go now?

Well, the DWP letter , BF57, is a formal document (issued after intensive checks involving a visit by an Officer to check all was kosher) giving me, essentially, "Power of Attorney" over his benefits. And initially all  the bank wanted was this letter to have an official stamp and they gave me copy of their protocol detailing his. Unfortunately DWP hasn't done wet stamps for years so that turned out to be pointless. Ultimately their Document Verification Team verified it as genuine - as obviously the DWP have his records for his PIP and a different bit has his Universal Credit, so he'd definitely there. 
Where's it going now?
I used the letter to have his UC (PIP stops after 28 days in an institution) transferred to my bank account while I opened one in his name. That's where its going - I think now I'm just going to open another Savings Account in my name and put his money in there, where its separated from mine and available whenever he has capacity to deal with it.
But it still seems odd, their refusal of the account that is.

lesleyfromkent

xylophone said:

Seek the assistance of his key worker at the secure facility?

Well, the bank have made their decree. So, as I've said to born_again, I have a solution, just create an account to put his money in, but in my name.
What I was interested to know was whether this is "normal" practice, as obviously is an abnormal situation. He has no phioto id - I was able to provide the 3 ID documents on their "without photo id" list - although only just, most of them were to do with where you lived (tenancy agreement, council tax dox etc) which he doesn't have. But to have been through all these hoops and be told at the very end that because he was "remote" the account was refused, I still find that odd. 
The biggest hoop was the stamp - I have 3 hours worth of calls to the DWP trying to explain to them that the bank was insisting on this, they were baffled. One guy said that he'd done literally hundreds of these documents and had never had a problem like this. I just can't understand why they wouldn't say at the beginning that if there's no photo ID and the person cannot be present, then its "remote" (the word they kept using) and cannot go ahead. I'm not complaining about their procedures - its just I've found that if something is this weird, then it may well be incorrect. And I hoped a "banking bod" might be able to explain.
Thanks for the reply.

born_again

lesleyfromkent said:

born_again said:

From a banks point of view I can see why they have declined, as other than DWP letter there is no other proof of the individual. 
Where does his money go now?

Well, the DWP letter , BF57, is a formal document (issued after intensive checks involving a visit by an Officer to check all was kosher) giving me, essentially, "Power of Attorney" over his benefits. And initially all  the bank wanted was this letter to have an official stamp and they gave me copy of their protocol detailing his. Unfortunately DWP hasn't done wet stamps for years so that turned out to be pointless. Ultimately their Document Verification Team verified it as genuine - as obviously the DWP have his records for his PIP and a different bit has his Universal Credit, so he'd definitely there. 
Where's it going now?
I used the letter to have his UC (PIP stops after 28 days in an institution) transferred to my bank account while I opened one in his name. That's where its going - I think now I'm just going to open another Savings Account in my name and put his money in there, where its separated from mine and available whenever he has capacity to deal with it.
But it still seems odd, their refusal of the account that is.

If you receive any means tested benefits his money being in your name will/could effect them.

400ixl

Problem with your solution is that it is then not his money it is yours. Any tax interest liability is yours etc etc.

Maybe try a different bank?

Eyeful

1. What type of account did you try? 
Normal current account?
Basic bank account where they provide a debit card for access but no form of credit?
Savings account?

2. You state that " One guy said that he'd done literally hundreds of these documents and had never had a problem like this". Then you could try some different banks/building societies or credit unions. You may just been unlucky with that bank.

3. May be try asking at "citizens advice"

4. Write to BBC Radio 4 " Money Box" program & explain the problem. It's surprising how often institutions change their minds or find one of their personnel has not followed the correct procedure. The well known "Money Box Effect"

lesleyfromkent

born_again: no means tested benefits, so no problem.
400ixl: tax interest liability: he only gets £809 pcm UC, ie minimal. Happy to pay it when asked for (yup, I will have to declare it on my tax return).
eyeful: what type of account?: don't know, presumably a basic bank account labelled "Nominee Account" ie his name, me nominee. I never asked for any credit facility.
2. the "one guy said he'd done hundreds without problems" comment: yup, you're correct. But the wringer I have been put through has put me off, I am crushed - and I deliberately tried at a bank where I have a CA and he one where his UC is going into my CA now. But I have a solution - transfer into my account, ensure its a separate account, and he gets it when he's out/well.
3. ask CAB - you contacted them recently? They've been contracted out - but what I'm looking for in fact is only an explanation of this "remote" business. The problem of where to put the money, I have solved (see above), it might take me months to get an "appointment with one of our specialists". 
4. Money Box - that's a good idea. I will drop them an email, as I say, I looking for an explanation and they may feel its interesting enough to feature.
Thanks for trying guys and gals, I appreciate it.

lesleyfromkent

And yes, if he's in there a long time, the money could build up and I could then be up for tax on putative "gifts". But he has a £1,700 credit card debt that I will pay off as soon as there is enough in the account, and once it gets to, say, £10k, then I'll have to look at other solutions as one can only "gift" £3k pa without getting involved in tax.

General_Grant

lesleyfromkent said:

And yes, if he's in there a long time, the money could build up and I could then be up for tax on putative "gifts". But he has a £1,700 credit card debt that I will pay off as soon as there is enough in the account, and once it gets to, say, £10k, then I'll have to look at other solutions as one can only "gift" £3k pa without getting involved in tax.

If you are receiving money on his behalf which is more than his current needs, why not pay off the credit card debt in monthly instalments rather than waiting till you have the full amount.  You would thus save interest building up.  Or has the card issuer frozen this so it is fixed and not growing?

Who is gifting what?