Inheritance due whilst receiving UC

DullGreyGuy

HillStreetBlues said:

An average UK wedding costs over £20k, one that costs half that I could never see that as extravagant.

The £20k normally references a wedding based website that surveys circa 1,800 of its members to get to that figure. The website in question makes its money via advertising to service providers in the wedding space, it would certainly suit their purposes if the number that comes out is very high. Another similar site claims to have surveyed 4,000 members and came out with a £25k figure

I have no knowledge of their sites but wonder if you are looking to spend a tiny amount on your wedding if you'd bother signing up to such a site? Are people going to be honest or are they going to want to brag? Are they going to be selective of who they invite to maximise the value given the vested interest? A 25% deviation is fairly significant so if these are both accurate why the bid difference

Their costs also include the honeymoon so potentially the OP's £5k "holiday" budget should be considered? There are also significant regional variations with London being £36k and Wales £14,000. Dont know where the OP is / where they plan to get married. 

Have no idea on DoC, to me thats Driving other Cars, but I'd take stats from a company doing surveys with a vested interest in the numbers with a significant pinch of salt. 

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

Yeah the lack of caselaw is a problem.. but also the subjectivity alongside... one person's unreasonable spending may make perfect sense in another case such as regarding weddings. We also know Decision Makers can act unexpectedly.... my wife as example got a decision in advance of going beyond being abroad for a month when normally I understand such decisions are taken after event. I presume there is little out there describing any advanced decisions on spending and DoC... but also of course there is risk is such a request that it would appear the claimant understood the capital limits and was setting about meeting them. I suppose I would default to my usual advice in cases like this.... spend as you want to with the calculation of how you will survive for temporary (presumed) loss of entitlement as backup in mind.... weigh up the risks.

I agree it it can be on opinion but with DoC the DM/DWP have to show it isn't just that person's opinion.
The DWP can't just claim the spending is unreasonable, it has to show that there was a "significant purpose" in increasing or gaining a benefit in that spending.
There isn't  huge amount of Case Law as the bar is set fairly high so it really has to be clear cut.

If OP was going to spend £60k on the wedding, then yes it could well be looked at as DoC as that cost is clearly much higher than a average wedding and is spending all their money in it.. But the OP wants to spend about 20% of the money on a wedding that is half the average cost. A DM will never have the evidence needed in trying to claim that  significant purpose" in that wedding was to increase UC.

HillStreetBlues

DullGreyGuy said:

HillStreetBlues said:

An average UK wedding costs over £20k, one that costs half that I could never see that as extravagant.

The £20k normally references a wedding based website that surveys circa 1,800 of its members to get to that figure. The website in question makes its money via advertising to service providers in the wedding space, it would certainly suit their purposes if the number that comes out is very high. Another similar site claims to have surveyed 4,000 members and came out with a £25k figure

I have no knowledge of their sites but wonder if you are looking to spend a tiny amount on your wedding if you'd bother signing up to such a site? Are people going to be honest or are they going to want to brag? Are they going to be selective of who they invite to maximise the value given the vested interest? A 25% deviation is fairly significant so if these are both accurate why the bid difference

Their costs also include the honeymoon so potentially the OP's £5k "holiday" budget should be considered? There are also significant regional variations with London being £36k and Wales £14,000. Dont know where the OP is / where they plan to get married. 

Have no idea on DoC, to me thats Driving other Cars, but I'd take stats from a company doing surveys with a vested interest in the numbers with a significant pinch of salt. 

The £20k /£25k are I think the same figures with the later having the ring & honeymoon added.
I wouldn't totally trust those figures, but it does give a bit of guidance.

TELLIT01

tacpot12 said:

If your UC claim is closed, you can reapply as soon as your capital drops below £16,000. 

Yes they CAN claim once the capital drops below £16k, but if capital drops from around £60k to under £16k in a matter of weeks or months questions are likely to be asked about the rate of spend and reasons.  Simply getting back below £16k doesn't mean an automatic entitlement to payment from UC, or any other income related benefit.

crazymoose2000

TELLIT01 said:

tacpot12 said:

If your UC claim is closed, you can reapply as soon as your capital drops below £16,000. 

Yes they CAN claim once the capital drops below £16k, but if capital drops from around £60k to under £16k in a matter of weeks or months questions are likely to be asked about the rate of spend and reasons.  Simply getting back below £16k doesn't mean an automatic entitlement to payment from UC, or any other income related benefit.

It would probably be 24months (ish) before we got under the 16k threshold after purchasing the things I listed before we would need to reclaim again if that's a suitable timescale?

HillStreetBlues

For anyone who wants to have a read of Case Law, the most appropriate would be  CIS/1775/2007 http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSSCSC/2007/CIS_1775_2007.html
It decided that a person on means-tested benefit didn't have to spend their windfall on everyday things, it is reasonable to spend it on improving the quality of their lives.

Muttleythefrog

crazymoose2000 said:

TELLIT01 said:

tacpot12 said:

If your UC claim is closed, you can reapply as soon as your capital drops below £16,000. 

Yes they CAN claim once the capital drops below £16k, but if capital drops from around £60k to under £16k in a matter of weeks or months questions are likely to be asked about the rate of spend and reasons.  Simply getting back below £16k doesn't mean an automatic entitlement to payment from UC, or any other income related benefit.

It would probably be 24months (ish) before we got under the 16k threshold after purchasing the things I listed before we would need to reclaim again if that's a suitable timescale?

Just trying to get a picture here.... are you saying the items listed are not going to actioned over a very short period of time quickly after receipt of the inheritance? If so then obviously entitlement to any payments will end for the UC assessment periods where capital above £16k.... and if the spending is over a lengthier period of time than maybe myself and others have envisioned then it surely reduces risks of being considered as Deprivation of capital regarding any relevant item given the intent to reduce savings below the limit looks far less likely a motivation and so indeed more difficult to evidence/prove. That'd be my take on it and I'd personally take the small associated risk with that if indeed this is the spending you want to commit to... as HSB says the bar is set quite high... and there is appeal option. We just can't offer up certainties other than that things like paying off debts will not be considered for UC purposes as DoC.... so with that in mind... a potential slight protective measure may be to pay for these big expenses on credit cards if you can and obviously pay them off with the bank account ASAP but perhaps in bits (to the tune of Martin Lewis' 'pay balance off each month in full' to avoid interest).

(As observation.. in general reviews being carried out for UC when asking for 4 months bank statements and other accounts like paypal they seem to ignore credit cards... they didn't enquire about us paying thousands in Credit Card Direct Debits on bank statement but they've queried others paying the window cleaner or sending little money to paypal... even utility bills.. on supplied bank statements!)

With uncertainties it's a risk management game... just like marriage itself... all the best with that!

Suzycoll

crazymoose2000 said:

Hi all,

We currently receive UC, we live month to month and don't have any money left.

Due to receive some inheritance in the next few months of between 50k-60k

There are things we would like to spend the money on but would it be seen as wrong to spend the following:

10k - Clear debts
20k - Car
1k - Appliances
10k - Wedding
5k - Holiday
2k - Garden

This totals 46k and would leave around 10k-15k in savings so the UC claim would remain open?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Sue

It will all depend on how the decision maker works out your extra spending 
They have strict guidelines to go by regarding 'deprivation of capital'

The  amount you inherit will stop your claim to UC when you inform them
As others have said you can apply once savings drop.
I would advise keep ALL receipts & bookkeeping. They WILL ask to see all your purchases 

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

Just trying to get a picture here.... are you saying the items listed are not going to actioned over a very short period of time quickly after receipt of the inheritance? If so then obviously entitlement to any payments will end for the UC assessment periods where capital above £16k.... and if the spending is over a lengthier period of time than maybe myself and others have envisioned then it surely reduces risks of being considered as Deprivation of capital regarding any relevant item given the intent to reduce savings below the limit looks far less likely a motivation and so indeed more difficult to evidence/prove. That'd be my take on it and I'd personally take the small associated risk with that if indeed this is the spending you want to commit to... as HSB says the bar is set quite high... and there is appeal option. We just can't offer up certainties other than that things like paying off debts will not be considered for UC purposes as DoC.... so with that in mind... a potential slight protective measure may be to pay for these big expenses on credit cards if you can and obviously pay them off with the bank account ASAP but perhaps in bits. (As observation.. in general reviews being carried out for UC when asking for 4 months bank statements and other accounts like paypal they seem to ignore credit cards... they didn't enquire about us paying thousands in Credit Card Direct Debits on bank statement but they've queried others paying the window cleaner or sending little money to paypal... even utility bills.. on supplied bank statements!) With uncertainties it's a risk management game... just like marriage itself... all the best with that!

The time-frame can matter, in fact it's referred to in Case Law CJSA/1425/2004. 

crazymoose2000

Muttleythefrog said:

crazymoose2000 said:

TELLIT01 said:

tacpot12 said:

If your UC claim is closed, you can reapply as soon as your capital drops below £16,000. 

Yes they CAN claim once the capital drops below £16k, but if capital drops from around £60k to under £16k in a matter of weeks or months questions are likely to be asked about the rate of spend and reasons.  Simply getting back below £16k doesn't mean an automatic entitlement to payment from UC, or any other income related benefit.

It would probably be 24months (ish) before we got under the 16k threshold after purchasing the things I listed before we would need to reclaim again if that's a suitable timescale?

Just trying to get a picture here.... are you saying the items listed are not going to actioned over a very short period of time quickly after receipt of the inheritance? If so then obviously entitlement to any payments will end for the UC assessment periods where capital above £16k.... and if the spending is over a lengthier period of time than maybe myself and others have envisioned then it surely reduces risks of being considered as Deprivation of capital regarding any relevant item given the intent to reduce savings below the limit looks far less likely a motivation and so indeed more difficult to evidence/prove. That'd be my take on it and I'd personally take the small associated risk with that if indeed this is the spending you want to commit to... as HSB says the bar is set quite high... and there is appeal option. We just can't offer up certainties other than that things like paying off debts will not be considered for UC purposes as DoC.... so with that in mind... a potential slight protective measure may be to pay for these big expenses on credit cards if you can and obviously pay them off with the bank account ASAP but perhaps in bits (to the tune of Martin Lewis' 'pay balance off each month in full' to avoid interest).

(As observation.. in general reviews being carried out for UC when asking for 4 months bank statements and other accounts like paypal they seem to ignore credit cards... they didn't enquire about us paying thousands in Credit Card Direct Debits on bank statement but they've queried others paying the window cleaner or sending little money to paypal... even utility bills.. on supplied bank statements!)

With uncertainties it's a risk management game... just like marriage itself... all the best with that!

Thanks for the reply, the items listed would be purchased within a few months of receiving the inheritance, we would then use the extra inheritance left to make up the shortfall we would be losing out from the UC payment each month, that should last around 2 years before needing to reclaim, hope this all makes sense.