Inheritance due whilst receiving UC

crazymoose2000

Hi all,

We currently receive UC, we live month to month and don't have any money left.

Due to receive some inheritance in the next few months of between 50k-60k

There are things we would like to spend the money on but would it be seen as wrong to spend the following:

10k - Clear debts
20k - Car
1k - Appliances
10k - Wedding
5k - Holiday
2k - Garden

This totals 46k and would leave around 10k-15k in savings so the UC claim would remain open?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Sue

TELLIT01

Clearing debts is OK, as is new appliances.  The spend of £20k on a car would possibly be considered excessive unless there is a specific need for such a vehicle.  The £10k wedding spend may also be questioned.  Both may be viewed as deliberately spending in order to retain entitlement to benefits i.e. Deprivation of Capital.

crazymoose2000

Having the inheritance is the only way we will ever be able to afford to get married or have a family car so if we go ahead with them and the UC claim was to close, how long before we could re-apply?

MattMattMattUK

crazymoose2000 said:

Having the inheritance is the only way we will ever be able to afford to get married 

It cost around £150 to get married in a Register Office, you do not need to spend £10k, which is why it would be seen as deprivation of capital.

crazymoose2000 said:

or have a family car

You do not need to spend £20k for a family car, hence why it would be deemed deprivation of capital.

The holiday would also be seen as deprivation of capital, the garden may as well. 

tacpot12

crazymoose2000 said:

Having the inheritance is the only way we will ever be able to afford to get married or have a family car so if we go ahead with them and the UC claim was to close, how long before we could re-apply?

If your UC claim is closed, you can reapply as soon as your capital drops below £16,000. 

I agreed that the wedding, car and holiday are likely to be seen as a deliberate deprivation of assets. My Ford Monedo cost £900 four years ago. I expect it would cost £1900 now as used car prices have increased a lot since the pandemic. 

HillStreetBlues

I disagree that the wedding will be seen as DoC.
An inheritance isn't just for everyday spending (Tribunals have ruled this) it's also for spending on thing that a person wants without going over the top.
An average UK wedding costs over £20k, one that costs half that I could never see that as extravagant.
I do believe there is a common misconception of what DoC really is, and it's up to the DM /DWP  to "prove" there has been DoC.
I can't see anyone arguing the the OP got married with the significant  purpose of reducing their capital.

Muttleythefrog

Deprivation of capital unfortunately is a subjective issue and may vary in response Decision Maker to Decision Maker... and indeed in terms of advice in places like here where we unfortunately don't seem to get to see many outcomes from cases to shed light on decision making. As a result it is hard to give any solid advice. My own interpretation is that you would be clearly trying to deprive yourself of monies (DoC) to claim benefits as there is extravagant unnecessary spending... but I certainly could not rule out a DM would take a different view on every item of spending. Clearing debts certainly won't be considered DoC for Universal Credit purposes, appliances and garden spending seem regular.. but the wedding, car and holiday may be problematic... particularly the last two.

Ginger70

Looking at your list it could be seen that you're attempting to spend just enough to bring you under the level for losing your benefits help (although help tapers off after £6000 so you're possibly accepting there will be a hit on the amount you receive)
Clearing debts should be fine as would buying a modest family car and replacing white goods.
I think you'll come unstuck with the 20k car, 10k wedding, holiday and garden.
Weddings only average £20000 or £10000 if you're daft enough to pay that and get caught up in the extra's. As previously stated - you can afford to get married now in a registry office - what you can't afford is the big party.
There are however some venues that offer reasonably priced weddings for a modest number of guests - especially if you're not to fussed about Saturdays - maybe that would be worth exploring?
I think you're biggest problem is that they don't give you a decision about DOC until you've spent the money - if they then decide its deprivation its too late.
As far as reclaiming I had a friend who was told she would be expected to make up what she lost in benefits from her capital - so if she lost £1000 a month and had £30000 she wouldn't be expected to make another claim for at least 18 months - possibly longer!

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

Deprivation of capital unfortunately is a subjective issue and may vary in response Decision Maker to Decision Maker... and indeed in terms of advice in places like here where we unfortunately don't seem to get to see many outcomes from cases to shed light on decision making. As a result it is hard to give any solid advice. My own interpretation is that you would be clearly trying to deprive yourself of monies (DoC) to claim benefits as there is extravagant unnecessary spending... but I certainly could not rule out a DM would take a different view on every item of spending. Clearing debts certainly won't be considered DoC for Universal Credit purposes, appliances and garden spending seem regular.. but the wedding, car and holiday may be problematic... particularly the last two.

DM's should follow case law guidance but no doubt some don't. DoC isn't that common as it's down to "proof" a DM can't simply claim DoC without evidence that it's happened.
The issue is people that have never read Case law about DoC  and what it really involves think it's wise to comment that a wedding with be DoC simply because in their personal view £10K is too much to spend on a  wedding, without citing any Case law that would back up their view. ( I personally think it's spending £20k or even £10k on a wedding is mind blowing, but I don't let that get in the way of what DoC actually is).

Saying there could get married in a registry office completely misses the actual law on DoC. The fact the OP hasn't already used a RO would back up the claim that the OP doesn't want to get married that way.

P.S. for anyone trying to find case law on a £10k wedding for DoC, don't bother as you won't find one.

Muttleythefrog

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deprivation of capital unfortunately is a subjective issue and may vary in response Decision Maker to Decision Maker... and indeed in terms of advice in places like here where we unfortunately don't seem to get to see many outcomes from cases to shed light on decision making. As a result it is hard to give any solid advice. My own interpretation is that you would be clearly trying to deprive yourself of monies (DoC) to claim benefits as there is extravagant unnecessary spending... but I certainly could not rule out a DM would take a different view on every item of spending. Clearing debts certainly won't be considered DoC for Universal Credit purposes, appliances and garden spending seem regular.. but the wedding, car and holiday may be problematic... particularly the last two.

DM's should follow case law guidance but no doubt some don't. DoC isn't that common as it's down to "proof" a DM can't simply claim DoC without evidence that it's happened.
The issue is people that have never read Case law about DoC  and what it really involves think it's wise to comment that a wedding with be DoC simply because in their personal view £10K is too much to spend on a  wedding, without citing any Case law that would back up their view. ( I personally think it's spending £20k or even £10k on a wedding is mind blowing, but I don't let that get in the way of what DoC actually is).

Saying there could get married in a registry office completely misses the actual law on DoC. The fact the OP hasn't already used a RO would back up the claim that the OP doesn't want to get married that way.

P.S. for anyone trying to find case law on a £10k wedding for DoC, don't bother as you won't find one.

Yeah the lack of caselaw is a problem.. but also the subjectivity alongside... one person's unreasonable spending may make perfect sense in another case such as regarding weddings... even holidays... possibly a car. We also know Decision Makers can act unexpectedly.... my wife as example got a decision in advance of going beyond being abroad for a month when normally I understand such decisions are taken after event. I presume there is little out there describing any advanced decisions on spending and DoC... but also of course there is risk is such a request that it would appear the claimant understood the capital limits and was setting about meeting them (crucial as in cases I've read where the DWP lost the argument the claimant appeared unaware of such or believed they would lose entitlement and went ahead with spending anyway). I suppose I would default to my usual advice in cases like this.... spend as you want to with the calculation of how you will survive for temporary (presumed) loss of entitlement as backup in mind should that happen.... weigh up the risks... if you can live with the worst outcome then life is too short to avoid seeking the best.

(And report back here any outcomes...!)

For reference additional reading the Op may feast on "Deprivation of capital H1795 - H1873" within 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65d336b3e1bdec2be1322238/admh1.pdf
(the end of this document deals with diminishing notional capital and links to the relevant regulations - the op asks about this in terms of regaining UC entitlement but of course this is tricky for calculations as what, if anything at all, is decided DoC spending is unknown.. also unknown if DoC is determined then the length of any appeal process which could deprive of monies for a period whether successful or not)

crazymoose2000

The things I listed are the once in a life time purchase's (for us anyway) that we would want to use the inheritance for and not get into years of debt over. We may very well spend less on a car and wedding so would be over the threshold of 16k savings for a little while. But as it slowly reduced over 2-3years after the purchases we would need to re-apply for UC.