Need advice and don't know where to turn!

JigglyPlates111

Sadly my father has passed away. He had a will and named me as the executor to his estate.

Some key points

- He had no assets, either in items or property.
- I have not yet accessed his bank accounts as awaiting registration of death and certificate, but I am pretty sure his balance will be pretty much zero. He had no savings.
- He was a private rental tenant.
- I've found several letters stating he owes thousands to several debt agencies.
- He has a small life insurance policy that will just about cover funeral costs.

I was aware that once death is registered, the claim on life insurance goes ahead, I use this money to pay for the funeral first and foremost.

I need to know:

- Whether life insurance pay out is classed as "part of the estate". For example, lets say there is £1000 left out of his life insurance money after funeral costs are paid, is this effectively mine, or does it have to go towards debt payments, equally split?

- His rental home is in quite a mess, he's clearly smoked in the property for several years, and in the last few months has been very unwell. Without going into great detail, there is no way I could physically personally clear his home, and cannot afford to pay for a clearance company to do this. I've removed a few sentimental items, of which are nil value, but there is nothing in the home of any value or use. I am unable to fund clearance of the property, although the letting agent have stated they expect me to pay not only to clear the property, but to pay for any repairs / renovations also. They have also stated they will work out if he owes any debts and that they would pass these to myself also?

I need to know:

- Do I need formal legal advice here? What type of solicitor do I look for if I do?
- Can I effectively tell the letting agent that the property is how it is, to send an invoice for costs and if there is money left in his estate it will go towards paying debtors, of which they will be listed as one?
- I am pretty sure his estate will be classed as insolvent, do I need to formally state this or register this anywhere?

Feeling quite lost and overwhelmed with it all!

DE_612183

1. Life insurance is part of the estate.
2. debts from the rental property will become the liability of the estate - you can't be held responsible for this - just tell them to clear the property and send any invoice to the "The Executors of the Late Mr XXXX" ( in no way should your name be on it ).
3. No you don't need legal advice - unless you want to pay for it.
4. You still need to register the estate and apply for probate - I would do this as the you can declare the value of the estate for any debt chasers to see.

kipsterno1

DE_612183 said:

4. You still need to register the estate and apply for probate - I would do this as the you can declare the value of the estate for any debt chasers to see.

Is this right? There is no property to sell and no assets so my understanding is probate would not be required.

Someone better qualified than me will be along soon but the usual advice if the estate is insolvent is just to walk away and tell anyone there is no money and no one is administrating the estate.

RAS

Sorry for your loss and the situation.

Estate agents need no training in rental law (some do train but not all) and they aren't qualified in inheritance law.

You need to learn about "intermeddling."

With respect to the insurance, is anyone listed as the beneficiary? If so, the money goes to them and they can choose to pay for the funeral, or not. Otherwise, it is legitimate to pay for the funeral. Make sure you know before you book anything.

The funeral costs can be paid for directly by the bank on receipt of the director's bill, providing there is enough in the account. Otherwise, contact the local authority about a public health funeral.

Beyond that, you can contact any other bank accounts and check how much is there but do not allow them to transfer the money to you.

You can also legitimately gather together any legal or financial paperwork so that someone could administer the estate, but you are not going to do that.

It sounds like this estate is insolvent so it's important that you do nothing to intermeddle. It's OK to write to people and let them know the estate is almost certainly insolvent, offer them the carrier bag of paperwork if they wish and walk away. Try and get into the house quickly, remove the paperwork. If you find the tenancy agreement, send a letter to the landlord advising that his tenant has died, is insolvent, you've returned the keys and you cannot clear the house. 

If your father paid a deposit the landlord can mitigate their loss by claiming that. Beyond that, write to the estate agency, return the keys (photo dropping it through the letterbox), tell them the estate is insolvent, offer up the paperwork if they want it and walk away.

JigglyPlates111

Thanks all

- I was sure I didn't need to apply for probate given there is no money or property etc to distribute.
- Life insurance will be around 7k, Will lists me as executor and then myself and two sisters as ones who get whatever is left after estate is administered. He specifically took this out to cover his funeral costs. 
- Bank accounts will be £0.

When you say offer up the paperwork to the estate agent, as in all the details I have of his debts? I'm not even sure if I have everything as so much is online nowadays. Estate is asking for a copy of the will, my ID, blah blah, which I'm obviously not going to send.

Where do I stand as executor if I effectively just say, the estate appears insolvent, if you want the paperwork to administer the account you can have it? I looked at renouncing but I have no idea how to do this or who to do this with - neither of the sisters will want to take this on either.

DE_612183

kipsterno1 said:

DE_612183 said:

4. You still need to register the estate and apply for probate - I would do this as the you can declare the value of the estate for any debt chasers to see.

Is this right? There is no property to sell and no assets so my understanding is probate would not be required.

Someone better qualified than me will be along soon but the usual advice if the estate is insolvent is just to walk away and tell anyone there is no money and no one is administrating the estate.

Sorry - worded incorrectly - you don't need to register for probate - but by doing so you can register the value of the estate - being zero - so anyone chasing debts should see that and give up.

FlorayG

You have to act in this as if you were a professional stranger engaged as executor, not his son.
Would a stranger pay the owed rent? No. Would they clear out the property? No. Would they write to all the people he owes money to and tell them that there is no value to the estate? Yes, that's the job you signed up for. As for payment of any of his debts, they were his debts not yours so you have no obligation to pay them out of your own money

Keep_pedalling

DE_612183 said:

1. Life insurance is part of the estate.
2. debts from the rental property will become the liability of the estate - you can't be held responsible for this - just tell them to clear the property and send any invoice to the "The Executors of the Late Mr XXXX" ( in no way should your name be on it ).
3. No you don't need legal advice - unless you want to pay for it.
4. You still need to register the estate and apply for probate - I would do this as the you can declare the value of the estate for any debt chasers to see.

Most of that is terrible advice.

1. life insurance can be part of an estate but usually it isn’t.

2. yes debt is the responsibility of the estate, but if an estate is insolvent, as this one appears to be, the landlord should be informed that it is insolvent and than no one is administrating it, then you walk away.

3. I do agree with this one.

4. No, probate is not required unless the deceased had assets that could not be released without it, and banks will pay out quite large sums (up to £50k with some banks)  without it.

Keep_pedalling

Speak to the banks bereavement department to inform them of his death, they should be able to also confirm how much he has in his accounts. Speak to the insurance company, they should be able to tell you is it is part of his estate or not. If it is not then you can safely receive the pay out to help pay his funeral costs. 

If you are correct about the estate being insolvent then write to the landlord and any other creditors you are aware of informing them of his death (include a copy of his death certificate) and tell them the estate is insolvent and that no one is administering it. 

If what is in his bank account and the insurance policy is not enough to cover his funeral then there is no obligation that you have to pay it the LA can provide a simple cremation.

doodling

Hi,

FlorayG said:

You have to act in this as if you were a professional stranger engaged as executor, not his son.
Would a stranger pay the owed rent? No. Would they clear out the property? No. Would they write to all the people he owes money to and tell them that there is no value to the estate? Yes, that's the job you signed up for. As for payment of any of his debts, they were his debts not yours so you have no obligation to pay them out of your own money

No, the OP doesn't have to do anything at all.  They don't need to write to anyone, they don't need to tell anyone anything, they don't even need to organise a funeral if they don't want to, they could just walk away.  The role of executor is not a compulsory one.

If the OP wants to organise a funeral then they can without taking on the role of executor.  They can use any cash in the estate to help pay for this.

In this case, they need to find out whether the life insurance forms part of the estate, it often doesn't, if it doesn't then it belongs to whoever it is due to be paid to (who of course can choose to use it to pay for a funeral).  If it is part of the estate then I'm not sure whether it can be touched without the OP having been deemed to have intermeddled in the estate.  If they are deemed to have intermeddled by getting the life insurance paid out then they are stuck with the role of executor which does imply a load of hassle in writing to people and if there is any cash left after the funeral costs, the potentially messy job of allocating what is left amongst the creditors in the correct proportions.

JigglyPlates111

Thanks so much for all of the guidance and advice. After a bit of my own research I think the following is likely to be best:

- register death and obtain death certificate 
- identify if life insurance policy forms part of estate or not (at present I think it will not)
- if not, complete the form to state I renounce myself as executor. 

The only ‘dealings’ I’ve had in anything to do with my father is informing his estate agent that he has passed. No banks have been informed etc and I won’t do anything further.

What I cannot find is where on earth I send the form to have it formally registered that I renounce the role and wish not to take part. 

Does anyone know how you do this? Or who you do this through? Should I contact the solicitors he completed his will through?

Do I still put his details in the ‘tell us once’ service or anything to notify people of his death? Or just do nothing at ALL?