Plymouth port car park

Lovelyjubbly101

Hi everyone, I'm new here..thank you for taking the time to read this..
I've received a county court claim for the same car park highlighted in this thread..and could use some advice please. 

Alleged contravention was in March this year. Only received reminder and not the first NTK. Wrote to them requesting further details and also advised that reason for parking there was due to medical emergency. Stayed in car park for 15minutes
 They ignored my 2nd letter again asking for more details. The issue was escalated to debt collection and solicitors for payment of the PCN. I wrote to the solicitors who replied that it's money owed and if I don't pay I would receive a county court claim. Hence here we are...

When I checked the details of the PCN online I notice that they entered the address of a different site further up the road, King's Marina. So would I be able to use this error on their part as a technicality and refute the contravention as my car was not on that particular car park ever?

Any other options? I read earlier about the max penalty in by laws of £25 for Harbour land. Another issue is signs with different parking company enforcement notices in the place. Can someone tell me more please. 

Gr1pr

Post some facts first

Issue date on the claim form   ?

Name of the parking company involved  (  Parking Eye  ?  )

Name of any legal company below the parking company name   ( DCB Legal   ?  )

Post a redacted picture of the POC on the lower left hand side of the claim form after hiding the VRM details first 

Was the pcn a penalty   ?  Or a parking charge notice  ?

Location named on the pcn 

Location where the vehicle was parked

Does the issue date on the POC match the date on the pcn   ?

Pictures of any signage   ?

The landowner is probably ABP, no POFA, not relevant land  , so no keeper liability 

Fruitcake

If the keeper was not the driver, then they (the keeper) cannot be held liable because it is not-relevant land where port bylaws apply.

Has the driver been identified to the claimant? I think in this instance it doesn't actually matter, so no harm has been done if this information has been given.

Yes, you should highlight in your defence that the alleged event did not occur at the location stated on the PCN/NTK as can clearly be seen from the claimant's own evidence. The claim is therefore vexatious and should be struck out accordingly.
Complain to the landowner and your MP about this, and the fact that the driver was forced to stop for reasons outside their control.

Stopping to attend to a medical emergency is not parking as determined in the persuasive appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard. Case number B9GF0A9E, transcript available online. Have a look at the judge's comments around paragraphs 19 and 20.
I would suggest being forced to stop for this reason would also form a frustration of contract.
In addition, stopping for this particular reason is (probably) a permitted action according to the bylaws.

Lovelyjubbly101

Hi, claim form dated 18 Dec, received on 23rd December 2024
Claimant is ParkingEye. DCB Legal are correspondence address.
Car pulled into and stopped at Millbay Docks Car park for 15minutes. Online charge notice says King Point Marina. 



Additional letters below 
I replied to above letters stating that A)  initial notice was never received. medical emergency with no safe place to pull into on road leading to port. I was actually due to take a ferry that same afternoon so this was before pulling into port to start embarking process. 


That's the car park used. 

Another poster has previously added pics of signage in this car park and indeed it does have another sign for a different company on one of the wall Total Parking Solutions I think 🤔.. 

Thank you 

KeithP

Lovelyjubbly101 said:

Hi, claim form dated 18 Dec, received on 23rd December 2024.

With a Claim Issue Date of 18th December, you have until Monday 6th January 2025 to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 20th January 2025 to file a Defence.

That's three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

You need to be aware that those Particulars of Claim are totally inadequate.
Particularly this bit...

So it is alleged that the driver 'breached the terms on the signs (the contract)'.

And that allegation is then repeated - 'Reason: Vehicle Remained On Private Property In Breach Of The Prominently Displayed Terms And Conditions'. Note their strange use of capital letters in that last sentence.

Nowhere in those Particulars is there any explanation of what the driver is alleged to have done wrong.

This will be an easy win.

Lovelyjubbly101

Same car park as these two threads:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6486430/advice-on-non-retail-carpark-please

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6492486/parking-charge-plymouth-port

Seems to be a repeat offender. Particularly confusing too as road signage directs motorists to it then you are in it and up the creek without a paddle 😅

Lovelyjubbly101

KeithP said:

Lovelyjubbly101 said:

Hi, claim form dated 18 Dec, received on 23rd December 2024.

With a Claim Issue Date of 18th December, you have until Monday 6th January 2025 to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 20th January 2025 to file a Defence.

That's three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

You need to be aware that those Particulars of Claim are totally inadequate.
Particularly this bit...

So it is alleged that the driver 'breached the terms on the signs (the contract)'.

And that allegation is then repeated - 'Reason: Vehicle Remained On Private Property In Breach Of The Prominently Displayed Terms And Conditions'. Note their strange use of capital letters in that last sentence.

Nowhere in those Particulars is there any explanation of what the driver is alleged to have done wrong.

This will be an easy win.

Thank you, I'm on it now! 

Gr1pr

Seems to me that the issue date is incorrect in the POC, it was the incident date 

Lovelyjubbly101

Gr1pr said:

Seems to me that the issue date is incorrect in the POC, it was the incident date 

I don't have original issue date as I only received the reminder in April 2024

Gr1pr

If there was a windscreen pcn issued to the vehicle on the incident date,  then that is the issued date 

Anything else is a later issue date,  like a postal PCN,  hence a postal pcn has an issue date later than the incident date 

You know if a windscreen PCN to the driver was issued by an operative on site,  or not,  so it's simple deduction 

The 30 april 2024 letter shown above is not a reminder letter,  it's a follow up letter to the RK indicating that its more than 29 days since a windscreen notice was issued on the incident date IMHO

That letter would be the first postal PCN issued to the RK, no previous letter

They are trying to transfer liability using pofa from the driver to the keeper,  but ports have byelaws,  so not relevant land under pofa,  so pofa doesn't apply if byelaws apply.  ABP Ports indicates to me that its a port, not private land

Lovelyjubbly101

There was no windscreen notice, seems this car park uses ANPR. I took a ferry that day and returned 3 weeks later. No notice was received until that April letter which came as a surprise! As the driver has been named by way of reply to reason with them as it was medical emergency. Obviously didn't work 🙄 😒...