The Top Regular Savers Discussion Thread

Section62

Kim_13 said:

Section62 said:

Kim_13 said:

...
If I ran out of other allowances and the difference between an ISA and an RS was fractions of a percent, I’d take the ISA knowing that would be tax free year after year.

...

It doesn't have to be an either/or though.  A flexible cash ISA allows withdrawals that could be used to fund RS accounts paying a higher rate of interest, and so long as the money is returned to the cash ISA before the end of the tax year the ISA allowance is retained.

Are Flexible ISAs not a little less useful than they once were though? Since prior year money must now be returned to the same ISA as it was withdrawn from, unless you are flexibly withdrawing all but the minimum balance, there’s a high chance said ISA is no longer the best payer during the year and as a result, money left in it is earning less than it could be. 

If it were only fractions of a percent, I’d likely still take the ISA and avoid the faff of tax code adjustments and checking that HMRC had done it all correctly.

Yes, I do that (more or less) - the money is only in the cash ISA for 2 or 3 days so the rate is unimportant.

My circumstances are a bit atypical, but the point (and why this is relevant to the thread topic) is that having a portfolio of RS accounts isn't mutually exclusive to maximising use of ISA allowances (which will become more important when the limit drops in 2027)

jameseonline

flaneurs_lobster said:

GetRichOrDieSaving said:

This comment isn’t in relation to any specific RS but I do contribute to around 15-20 regular savers as result of this thread monthly and it is linked directly to this.
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This isn’t a request for financial advice, I’m just pondering what other people’s thoughts are on tax on interest over tax free ISA savings and if I have the correct assumption to my current situation.  

I'd be interested to further this discussion - just wondering if it's suitable for this thread or worthy of its own?

I vote own thread, admins can we make this happen?

Bob2000

WillPS said:

Bob2000 said:

Well, l can see from the last few posts that Principality is wising up to multiples  of same issue number accounts.

So, who has had their accounts  closed, and are we talking hours, days, or weeks before they get in contact?

I've so far closed on maturity  my issue 3s, had three of them, but currently  have two Xmas savers. 
Do you think one of them will be shut down eventually?

My wife's were 3rd and 5th Dec, maturity information added around 6pm on the 2nd and the 4th respectively.

Both maturity instructions were carried out at around 0915 on the 3rd and 5th, but then subsequently the accounts were closed with the remaining £200 returned around 1600 both days.

We've had to shift strategy pretty rapidly - so it's a great vindication for speculatively opening accounts just outside current usefulness - Darlington @ 6% had gone unfunded since August but is now back on the 'fully fund' list. Finally opened a Skipton accounts as they have just hovered under our usefulness radar up to now (the heady 8% days were all missed because we hadn't been members long enough).

Also refreshed and funded Halifax @ 5.5%. Had to close BOS as no renewal options presented but that too will be refreshed and funded once that's actioned. Depressingly even opened and funded a Lloyds Monthly Saver @ 5.25%... although likely just an easy access saver than one that'll get fully funded. 

Still no online access for Loughborough Holiday Saver @ 5.6% but given it's within 6 months of term this too might unexpectedly get a little more than the minimal funding it's had. My notes say the account allows 1 withdrawal and a branch trip is doable if needs be.

So, in your case, they returned  the funds almost  immediately. (Principality) I've got 3 accounts  maturing in the next few weeks, but am not sure now whether to chance applying for duplicates of already holding accounts?

chris_the_bee

Kim_13 said:

Section62 said:

Kim_13 said:

...
If I ran out of other allowances and the difference between an ISA and an RS was fractions of a percent, I’d take the ISA knowing that would be tax free year after year.

...

It doesn't have to be an either/or though.  A flexible cash ISA allows withdrawals that could be used to fund RS accounts paying a higher rate of interest, and so long as the money is returned to the cash ISA before the end of the tax year the ISA allowance is retained.

Are Flexible ISAs not a little less useful than they once were though? Since prior year money must now be returned to the same ISA as it was withdrawn from, unless you are flexibly withdrawing all but the minimum balance, there’s a high chance said ISA is no longer the best payer during the year and as a result, money left in it is earning less than it could be. 

If it were only fractions of a percent, I’d likely still take the ISA and avoid the faff of tax code adjustments and checking that HMRC had done it all correctly.

Can you not return all the prior year money, transfer the ISA to another provider (if any accept prior year money) and then withdraw the prior year funds again?

Bob2000

jameseonline said:

Bob2000 said:

Well, l can see from the last few posts that Principality is wising up to multiples  of same issue number accounts.

So, who has had their accounts  closed, and are we talking hours, days, or weeks before they get in contact?

I've so far closed on maturity  my issue 3s, had three of them, but currently  have two Xmas savers. 
Do you think one of them will be shut down eventually?

Bob if you have seen the posts then surely you wouldn't need to ask?🤔

Principality send emails to people saying to login to view messages.

Seems to me it's an issue that doesn't really matter to you yet you want to stir the pot

I have seen the posts, yes,
l'm asking because l dont log in every day on the forum and noticed folks saying about Principality being more proactive  regarding duplicate accounts.

It does matter to me because l have some accounts due to mature  in the next few weeks. Having already 2 Xmas RS,1 issue4 6month RS(which l was/might try to get more?).
I've got enough pots to stir today with a Sunday roast. l definitely  don't need another one!

masonic

chris_the_bee said:

Kim_13 said:

Section62 said:

Kim_13 said:

...
If I ran out of other allowances and the difference between an ISA and an RS was fractions of a percent, I’d take the ISA knowing that would be tax free year after year.

...

It doesn't have to be an either/or though.  A flexible cash ISA allows withdrawals that could be used to fund RS accounts paying a higher rate of interest, and so long as the money is returned to the cash ISA before the end of the tax year the ISA allowance is retained.

Are Flexible ISAs not a little less useful than they once were though? Since prior year money must now be returned to the same ISA as it was withdrawn from, unless you are flexibly withdrawing all but the minimum balance, there’s a high chance said ISA is no longer the best payer during the year and as a result, money left in it is earning less than it could be. 

If it were only fractions of a percent, I’d likely still take the ISA and avoid the faff of tax code adjustments and checking that HMRC had done it all correctly.

Can you not return all the prior year money, transfer the ISA to another provider (if any accept prior year money) and then withdraw the prior year funds again?

You can, but typically you'd use a dedicated ISA with a £1 minimum balance and so the interest rate would be irrelevant. A clearing bank's instant access ISA is often ideal for this sort of thing and will only hold significant amounts of money for a couple of days each tax year. True instant access and immediate crediting of inward FP > rate.

chris_the_bee

Bob2000 said:

WillPS said:

Bob2000 said:

Well, l can see from the last few posts that Principality is wising up to multiples  of same issue number accounts.

So, who has had their accounts  closed, and are we talking hours, days, or weeks before they get in contact?

I've so far closed on maturity  my issue 3s, had three of them, but currently  have two Xmas savers. 
Do you think one of them will be shut down eventually?

My wife's were 3rd and 5th Dec, maturity information added around 6pm on the 2nd and the 4th respectively.

Both maturity instructions were carried out at around 0915 on the 3rd and 5th, but then subsequently the accounts were closed with the remaining £200 returned around 1600 both days.

We've had to shift strategy pretty rapidly - so it's a great vindication for speculatively opening accounts just outside current usefulness - Darlington @ 6% had gone unfunded since August but is now back on the 'fully fund' list. Finally opened a Skipton accounts as they have just hovered under our usefulness radar up to now (the heady 8% days were all missed because we hadn't been members long enough).

Also refreshed and funded Halifax @ 5.5%. Had to close BOS as no renewal options presented but that too will be refreshed and funded once that's actioned. Depressingly even opened and funded a Lloyds Monthly Saver @ 5.25%... although likely just an easy access saver than one that'll get fully funded. 

Still no online access for Loughborough Holiday Saver @ 5.6% but given it's within 6 months of term this too might unexpectedly get a little more than the minimal funding it's had. My notes say the account allows 1 withdrawal and a branch trip is doable if needs be.

So, in your case, they returned  the funds almost  immediately. (Principality) I've got 3 accounts  maturing in the next few weeks, but am not sure now whether to chance applying for duplicates of already holding accounts?

Principality
Has to be worth a chance. I had two duplicate 6MRS rejected and funds returned to me, but a duplicate X-masRS was accepted.

masonic

Bob2000 said:

jameseonline said:

Bob2000 said:

Well, l can see from the last few posts that Principality is wising up to multiples  of same issue number accounts.

So, who has had their accounts  closed, and are we talking hours, days, or weeks before they get in contact?

I've so far closed on maturity  my issue 3s, had three of them, but currently  have two Xmas savers. 
Do you think one of them will be shut down eventually?

Bob if you have seen the posts then surely you wouldn't need to ask?🤔

Principality send emails to people saying to login to view messages.

Seems to me it's an issue that doesn't really matter to you yet you want to stir the pot

I have seen the posts, yes,
l'm asking because l dont log in every day on the forum and noticed folks saying about Principality being more proactive  regarding duplicate accounts.
It does matter to me because l have some accounts due to mature  in the next few weeks. Having already 2 Xmas RS,1 issue4 6month RS(which l was/might try to get more?).
I've got enough pots to stir today with a Sunday roast. l definitely  don't need another one!

I've got one maturing in a month's time. It's a shame it wasn't a few days earlier or I could have had the benefit of the festive period to thwart manual intervention. Though perhaps if I choose just before Christmas I'll be granted a present in the form of a second Xmas RS.

PowerSavingMode

flaneurs_lobster said:

GetRichOrDieSaving said:

Bridlington1 said:

GetRichOrDieSaving said:

This comment isn’t in relation to any specific RS but I do contribute to around 15-20 regular savers as result of this thread monthly and it is linked directly to this.

I recently had my tax code altered (I’m a 20% tax payer, so £1000 tax free amount) because I exceeded my personal interest tax allowance which is fine, I understand why.  

Now like most of us I do chase the higest rates and jump through hoops to achieve these, but I don’t calculate my expected interest or even keep track of it. I just take it, leave, or renew onto the next issue etc. Due to my lackadaisical attitude I’ve always just assumed that paying 20% on interest if I did exceed the personal tax allowance would most likely work out better for me financially regardless in the long run. That’s based on having regular savers of 6%+ per year over lesser paying ISAs (currently with T212 at 4.05%). I’m currently contributing £4,200 monthly to RS. 

Now I know many others in this thread have large monthly contributions to RS and I’m ware that most likely run a tighter ship, but do you share the same assumption about paying the tax on interest? 

I also anticipate that as the RS rates naturally descrese overtime in line with BOE rates that I will eventually drop back under £1000 interest. 

I currently do not max out my ISA contributions and instead use this for everyday finances and spare money £1,000- £3,000 at any given time, which is why I have the T212 easy access S&S ISA. My current strategy (which I’m happy with) is saving in RS’s for 12 mornths, then paying off my annual 10% mortgage allowance in December, so don’t carry to much money over per annum. 

I generally take the approach that I'll stick my money wherever it earns the most interest (post tax) at the time, I'd rather fund a 6% RS than a 4% ISA at the moment on the grounds that even getting taxed on the interest on a 6% RS still leaves me (as a 20% taxpayer) with more money overall than a 4% ISA would.

I still keep track of how much interest I earn, but I'm a fair bit over the PSA at the moment so for me it's mainly the interest rates on cash ISAs vs regular savers I look at, especially now that I've got so much RS capacity at higher interest rates to the point it makes sense for me to pull money from ISAs to fund RSs.

Like yourself I'm assuming regular savers will slip back over the coming months, but I'm making the same assumption with variable ISA rates so it anything my collection of fixed rate RSs are probably going to take more of a priority for the next few months.

I've held back on funding some of my more ``borderline" RSs for this month owing to a shortage of available funds with a view to review the savings landscape more towards the end of the month.

A similar approach and attitude then, thanks for that. 

The high interest rates won’t be around for much longer and we have seen some chunky decreases in the past few months anyway so can only assume that my tax on interest problem will be somewhat short term. However they will rise again one day and I just want to make sure I have the right attitude towards it for my circumstances.

I appreciate the reply. 

Can I ask about people's record-keeping when it comes to interest income?

I have a nagging worry that I'm failing to keep sufficient detail at the account level, in fact I'm failing to keep any detail other than the Statements/Certificates issued by the providers after the year end. 

I'm currently funding ~30 RS/mth with ~£8k/mth (this is not sustainable for much longer, ISAs are depleting..). Interest earnings are ~£5k/yr (according to HMRC).

Is there any reason why I need to maintain a separate record of EVERY interest payment (monthly, annual)? 

Reworking my spreadsheets to capture individual interest payments at the account level is a serious chunk of work and would be onerous to maintain unless I can rethink the layouts.

I read here of mistakes/omissions being made by the institutions in their annual reporting to HMRC, don't think these errors are endemic but is this sufficient reason to check my actuals against annual statements against HMRC's figures?

Do others maintain a record of EVERY interest credit to their savings accounts or do you rely on your bank's statements/transaction listings?

If HMRC were to decide that I needed to move to Self Assessment (there's no reason why they would at the moment) are my records sufficiently detailed to provide the data required?

The last year or so, I have been doing exactly that: recording on a table within a general savings spreadsheet the interest paid during each tax year as it becomes payable to me. I know I'm not going to get every recording — for example, banks usually give a tax / interest statement well after any given tax year has finished — but it gives me an idea of where I'm heading. I have completely forgotten (until reading a post earlier in this thread) about including things such as the Nationwide Fairer Share payment. So my way is not exactly scientific!

Dizzycap

chris_the_bee said:

Bob2000 said:

WillPS said:

Bob2000 said:

Well, l can see from the last few posts that Principality is wising up to multiples  of same issue number accounts.

So, who has had their accounts  closed, and are we talking hours, days, or weeks before they get in contact?

I've so far closed on maturity  my issue 3s, had three of them, but currently  have two Xmas savers. 
Do you think one of them will be shut down eventually?

My wife's were 3rd and 5th Dec, maturity information added around 6pm on the 2nd and the 4th respectively.

Both maturity instructions were carried out at around 0915 on the 3rd and 5th, but then subsequently the accounts were closed with the remaining £200 returned around 1600 both days.

We've had to shift strategy pretty rapidly - so it's a great vindication for speculatively opening accounts just outside current usefulness - Darlington @ 6% had gone unfunded since August but is now back on the 'fully fund' list. Finally opened a Skipton accounts as they have just hovered under our usefulness radar up to now (the heady 8% days were all missed because we hadn't been members long enough).

Also refreshed and funded Halifax @ 5.5%. Had to close BOS as no renewal options presented but that too will be refreshed and funded once that's actioned. Depressingly even opened and funded a Lloyds Monthly Saver @ 5.25%... although likely just an easy access saver than one that'll get fully funded. 

Still no online access for Loughborough Holiday Saver @ 5.6% but given it's within 6 months of term this too might unexpectedly get a little more than the minimal funding it's had. My notes say the account allows 1 withdrawal and a branch trip is doable if needs be.

So, in your case, they returned  the funds almost  immediately. (Principality) I've got 3 accounts  maturing in the next few weeks, but am not sure now whether to chance applying for duplicates of already holding accounts?

Principality
Has to be worth a chance. I had two duplicate 6MRS rejected and funds returned to me, but a duplicate X-masRS was accepted.

This makes me wonder if Principality have a set number of accounts per issue type & once reached, maturity instructions are not actioned?