Letter Before Claim (LBC) from Gladstones dated 11/12/2024 received

KevinCai

Hello to all knowledgeable experts (Coupon-mad, Le_Kirk etc.) on the site

I have received the Letter Before Claim (LBC) from Gladstones dated 11/12/2024 for their client UK CPM. Have read all through the Newbies thread hence starting my own. I'm very sorry if this is covered but I couldn't quite figure it out. UK CPM is an IPC member.

Details:

- Postal PCN from UK CPM dated 28/03/24 received via the post. Reason being Not Displaying a Valid Permit. I'm the leaseholder for one of the flats and my parking permit was in display and clearly visible.
- Complaint to our management agent of the property but they won't help. Appeal submitted on UK CPM website on 07/04/24 with the "One Size Fits All" template as registered keeper.
- Appeal rejection email received on 19/04/24 with suggestion to further appeal to IAS if unsatisfied. I didn't appeal to IAS since all posts suggested it would just be waste of time.
- First reminder from Debt Recovery Plus dated 13/06/24 received (saying missed 2 payment deadlines).
- Second reminder from Debt Recovery Plus dated 28/06/24 received (saying missed 4 payment deadlines).
- Third reminder from Debt Recovery Plus dated 15/07/24 received (saying missed 5 payment deadlines).
- Fourth reminder from Debt Recovery Plus dated 05/08/24 received (saying missed 6 payment deadlines).
- Fifth reminder from Debt Recovery Plus dated 03/10/24 received (saying missed 5 payment deadlines, which contradicting with the fourth reminder).
- Letter Before Claim (LBC) from Gladstones dated 11/12/2024 received with the option to either pay the debt or dispute the debt.

I will definitely dispute the debt and I'm determined to take this to the end. If I read the Newbies thread correctly, my next step is to email Gladstones but I just wanted to check. I have asked the management agent again to see if they can help to resolve but haven't heard back yet.  

Any help would be great. Thanks.

Le_Kirk

Ignore the powerless debt collectors as advised in the fourth post of the NEWBIE sticky.  Respond to the LBC as advised in the second post of the NEWBIE sticky.

Coupon-mad

I will definitely dispute the debt and I'm determined to take this to the end. If I read the Newbies thread correctly, my next step is to email Gladstones but I just wanted to check. I have asked the management agent again to see if they can help to resolve but haven't heard back yet.

All good!  In our experience, Gladstones LBCs often lead nowhere. A claim is not certain. But if it comes in 2025, it's a cinch to defend.

KevinCai

Le_Kirk said:

Ignore the powerless debt collectors as advised in the fourth post of the NEWBIE sticky.  Respond to the LBC as advised in the second post of the NEWBIE sticky.

Thanks LK. I guess this is where you are referring to:

"If the parking firm is using Gladstones, DCLegal, BW Legal or other solicitor and you have a LBC or LoC (a letter) then search the forum for the solicitor's email and reply robustly as follows:

DO NOT SEND A LETTER.

Here's a robust example, for a case where you weren't driving and it's 'non-POFA':
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80421536/#Comment_80421536

Here's a more generic one to the solicitor (or operator if they sent the LOC themselves):

Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ############
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: xxxxxx xxxxxxxx Ltd

I refer to your your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
[Correct address here]

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.
I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully

----
You can briefly also state (ABOVE those two questions) your reasons for disputing the claim and/or state (if true) it was so long ago you have no idea what it's about and/or (if true) that you were not the driver and do not believe their client can hold the keeper liable.

This is how to word that last bit, for example a case at an Airport (this post is by a solicitor):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80564910/#Comment_80564910"

KevinCai

Coupon-mad said:

I will definitely dispute the debt and I'm determined to take this to the end. If I read the Newbies thread correctly, my next step is to email Gladstones but I just wanted to check. I have asked the management agent again to see if they can help to resolve but haven't heard back yet.

All good!  In our experience, Gladstones LBCs often lead nowhere. A claim is not certain. But if it comes in 2025, it's a cinch to defend.

Thanks CM. Do I send the email now or wait a bit to see if UK CPM respond to the management agent? 

The name Gladstones makes me sick. It's good to know you are on the panel next year! Also there were recent positive news on the BBC website on successful cases against the disgusting PPC.

Coupon-mad

Oh yes I've been an ever-present at every Steering Group meeting since 2020.  I'm retired, have the time and knowledge they wish I didn't have, and they can't get rid of me. The MHCLG seem to like all the evidence that primarily comes from this forum.

I'd wait well into January. Gladstones are never in a rush to issue claims. As I say, they usually don't, in my experience. Seems they are often only instructed to go as far as LBC stage.

KevinCai

Coupon-mad said:

Oh yes I've been an ever-present at every Steering Group meeting since 2020.  I'm retired, have the time and knowledge they wish I didn't have, and they can't get rid of me. The MHCLG seem to like all the evidence that primarily comes from this forum.

I'd wait well into January. Gladstones are never in a rush to issue claims. As I say, they usually don't, in my experience. Seems they are often only instructed to go as far as LBC stage.

Ok sure. Thanks CM! I will update if any news.

KevinCai

KevinCai said:

Coupon-mad said:

Oh yes I've been an ever-present at every Steering Group meeting since 2020.  I'm retired, have the time and knowledge they wish I didn't have, and they can't get rid of me. The MHCLG seem to like all the evidence that primarily comes from this forum.

I'd wait well into January. Gladstones are never in a rush to issue claims. As I say, they usually don't, in my experience. Seems they are often only instructed to go as far as LBC stage.

Ok sure. Thanks CM! I will update if any news.

Hi CM,

I just had another Gladstones letter dated 22/01/2025 came through the post as per picture. This does not look like anything towards a claim. Do you think I need to do anything at this stage please? My assumption is not to do anything. Thanks.

Coupon-mad

As they've given you a further 14 days from 22 January, reply next week, once into February, if you have not yet sent the usual LBC response shown above.

KevinCai

Coupon-mad said:

As they've given you a further 14 days from 22 January, reply next week, once into February, if you have not yet sent the usual LBC response shown above.

Thanks CM. I assume I should send the email as the usual LBC response above?

KevinCai

Coupon-mad said:

As they've given you a further 14 days from 22 January, reply next week, once into February, if you have not yet sent the usual LBC response shown above.

Hi CM,

Sorry if I'm being stupid, is this the email I should send please:

"If the parking firm is using Gladstones, DCLegal, BW Legal or other solicitor and you have a LBC or LoC (a letter) then search the forum for the solicitor's email and reply robustly as follows:

DO NOT SEND A LETTER.

Here's a robust example, for a case where you weren't driving and it's 'non-POFA':
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80421536/#Comment_80421536

Here's a more generic one to the solicitor (or operator if they sent the LOC themselves):

Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ############
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: xxxxxx xxxxxxxx Ltd

I refer to your your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
[Correct address here]

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.
I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully

----
You can briefly also state (ABOVE those two questions) your reasons for disputing the claim and/or state (if true) it was so long ago you have no idea what it's about and/or (if true) that you were not the driver and do not believe their client can hold the keeper liable.

This is how to word that last bit, for example a case at an Airport (this post is by a solicitor):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80564910/#Comment_80564910"