Economy 7, no mobile signal, imminent RTS switch off, Smart Meter and British Gas

Oslomum

I have Economy 7 with an RTS.  There is no mobile signal here.  EDF refused to install a Smart Meter at next door property due to lack of signal.  I have spent the last 8 weeks having exchanges with my supplier, British Gas, about what will happen here when RTS is switched off. Their answer is that they will install a Smart Meter and it will work in dumb mode.  I can't get any further with them.  If 'dumb mode' means it isn't capable of switching to and fro peak and off peak, then how will they know how to bill me?  To add to the joy I have solar and a battery.  Never get paid for what I put into the grid 'cos they can't measure it (my battery/solar measures it).  Fully electric house, 80% of units are off peak.  No gas.  No oil.  35 miles from London.  Mobile phone is through the WiFi.  Before I loose the will to live, anyone know what they should be/could be offering me after the RTS switch off?  I canot tell you how frustrating this is.  

Swipe

Your E7 smart meter will still switch between off and on peak with no signal.

Ildhund

Oslomum said:

If 'dumb mode' means it isn't capable of switching to and fro peak and off peak, then how will they know how to bill me?  

It doesn't. It just means that the meter won't be able to call home with your readings and usage data; it will operate just like a traditional meter in other respects. The Economy 7 switching times will be set once and for all in the meter itself on installation. You'd have to submit regular (at least monthly) readings yourself to be sure of getting accurate bills.

There are solutions for locations where there is no WAN signal, e.g. the mesh arrangement which piggybacks on a neighbour's signal, but that involves a bit of cooperation from the DCC who are responsible for the smart meter network. Does any of your neighbours have a communicating smart meter?

glennevis

Smart meters don't use mobile networks.

lohr500

glennevis said:

Smart meters don't use mobile networks.

Not so.

Scotland and the North of England do use a dedicated network, but the rest of England & Wales use the mobile phone network.

Some more info here :  https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2.html

Ildhund

lohr500 said:

glennevis said:

Smart meters don't use mobile networks.

Not so.

Scotland and the North of England do use a dedicated network, but the rest of England & Wales use the mobile phone network.

That's not strictly true, either. There are several mobile phone networks operated by the major providers, one of which is Virgin Media/O2. They have the contract to provide the smart meter communications network until 2028, and it uses different protocols from those used by mobile phones. It's just as 'dedicated' as the Arqiva long-range radio (LRR) network used by smart meters up North. However, if there's no O2 signal where you happen to be - not even 2G - then your meter's not likely to be able to connect.

In anticipation of the deprecation of 3G (currently scheduled for 2033), a new contract has been made with Vodafone to provide a new smart meter network using 4G covering the central and southern region. This means that existing SMETS2 smart meters will need new communications hubs (CH). Many customers in the northern region will get dual-mode CHs capable of connecting via either 4G or LRR, and it's likely that these will use provider-agnostic SIMs just like SMETS1 meters do.

Phones4Chris

@Ildhund You might want to edit your post, I think you meant deprecation of the 2G network scheduled for 2033, and thanks for the info.

Ildhund

Phones4Chris said:

@Ildhund You might want to edit your post, I think you meant deprecation of the 2G network scheduled for 2033, and thanks for the info.

Thanks, but no. The deprecation was agreed in 2021: "The mobile network operators have confirmed that they do not intend to offer 2G and 3G mobile networks past 2033 at the latest." MNOs have meanwhile decided to jump the gun by a decade or so, but - probably partly because of the smart meter network requirements - O2 will have to continue with a 2G/3G offering until their contract expires in 2028 at the earliest, and probably longer since it's unlikely that 12 million SMETS1 meters will have been upgraded and 21 million SMETS2 meters fitted with 4G-capable communications hubs in time.  

Oslomum

Thanks Ildhund.  That's more information than I have received from BGas.  My concern is that there is a way to switch and a way to measure peak and off peak.

No-one within 1/2 mile has a working smart meter - I suppose  I will let them fit the Smart Meter and send in readings if I can be bothered.  Otherwise they can come out and read it.  I am an oap and meter reading means climbing a ladder at the top of the stairs so I don't like doing it.  I did tell them not to out the meter there 34 years ago when it was installed but they didn't listen.

What chance my ever being able to sell my surplus solar?

Spoonie_Turtle

Oslomum said:

Thanks Ildhund.  That's more information than I have received from BGas.  My concern is that there is a way to switch and a way to measure peak and off peak.

No-one within 1/2 mile has a working smart meter - I suppose  I will let them fit the Smart Meter and send in readings if I can be bothered.  Otherwise they can come out and read it.  I am an oap and meter reading means climbing a ladder at the top of the stairs so I don't like doing it.  I did tell them not to out the meter there 34 years ago when it was installed but they didn't listen.

What chance my ever being able to sell my surplus solar?

Ohhh wow that sounds terrifying, you definitely need to be on the Priority Services Register with an arrangement for them to send a meter reader.

Phones4Chris

Ildhund said:

Phones4Chris said:

@Ildhund You might want to edit your post, I think you meant deprecation of the 2G network scheduled for 2033, and thanks for the info.

Thanks, but no. The deprecation was agreed in 2021: "The mobile network operators have confirmed that they do not intend to offer 2G and 3G mobile networks past 2033 at the latest." MNOs have meanwhile decided to jump the gun by a decade or so, but - probably partly because of the smart meter network requirements - O2 will have to continue with a 2G/3G offering until their contract expires in 2028 at the earliest, and probably longer since it's unlikely that 12 million SMETS1 meters will have been upgraded and 21 million SMETS2 meters fitted with 4G-capable communications hubs in time.  

Whilst this reply contains some useful information, you have misread my post AND YOURS. 3G is ALREADY being deprecated and most MNOs will have it switch off during next year. EE already have turned it off in many areas as have "Three". Vodafone are in the process of doing similar and O2 are now telling some customers they won't be able to use the 2G network in the near future even though it'll be available for Emergency use.
So saying that 3G will be deprecated by 2033 is misleading, it will be deprecated by the end of 2025 in most cases where it isn't already. It's the deprecation of 2G by 2033 that's more important right now.