People Saying Heat Pumps are Rubbish - Are They?

sohekim

I live between 2 houses that both have Air Source Heat Pumps fitted and both of them exceed the sound pressure levels. The Law states they must be 42dB or less and there is a good reason for this but we have recorded both units running at over 70dB. The manufactures do sound level tests but these I have found out to be flawed as they quote a "free field" test sound level which means that during the test there are no reflective surfaces for sounds to bounce off and the unit is basically clear of any obstructions and they manufactures do not have to record lower frequencies.  Nor do they take into account that rural village sound levels are lower than 40dB during the night so when calculations are made the manufacture uses the urban sound levels instead However these units when running emit deep frequency hums that can disturb the sleep. Also the colder or lower atmospheric pressure is the longer the Air Source Heat Pumps run for.  They can be a nuisance for people living near to them. At night prior to the fitting of the ASHP the sound level at night was 29.2dB but now it is between 60db and 75db when they are running and it is agony at night. All measurements have been taken using professional equipment and you can see there is a big difference between the normal quiet village life and when the ASHP's are running. It is so easy for these units to cause health problems as the sound grinds a person down. 

matelodave

My heatpump (14 years old with twin fans) is quieter than the oil boiler (installed around four years ago) in the house opposite across the road which I can hear when standing next to my heatpump.

However even that pales into insignificance compared with e the F15's and F35's from Lakenheath and Marham here in Cambridgeshire 

matt_drummer

sohekim said:

I live between 2 houses that both have Air Source Heat Pumps fitted and both of them exceed the sound pressure levels. The Law states they must be 42dB or less and there is a good reason for this but we have recorded both units running at over 70dB. The manufactures do sound level tests but these I have found out to be flawed as they quote a "free field" test sound level which means that during the test there are no reflective surfaces for sounds to bounce off and the unit is basically clear of any obstructions and they manufactures do not have to record lower frequencies.  Nor do they take into account that rural village sound levels are lower than 40dB during the night so when calculations are made the manufacture uses the urban sound levels instead However these units when running emit deep frequency hums that can disturb the sleep. Also the colder or lower atmospheric pressure is the longer the Air Source Heat Pumps run for.  They can be a nuisance for people living near to them. At night prior to the fitting of the ASHP the sound level at night was 29.2dB but now it is between 60db and 75db when they are running and it is agony at night. All measurements have been taken using professional equipment and you can see there is a big difference between the normal quiet village life and when the ASHP's are running. It is so easy for these units to cause health problems as the sound grinds a person down. 

I don't believe you, sorry.

Reed_Richards

I agree with @matelodave, my heat pump makes less noise than the external oil boiler it replaced and less noise than the oil boiler that my neighbours still have.

stripling

matt_drummer said:

sohekim said:

I live between 2 houses that both have Air Source Heat Pumps fitted and both of them exceed the sound pressure levels. The Law states they must be 42dB or less and there is a good reason for this but we have recorded both units running at over 70dB. The manufactures do sound level tests but these I have found out to be flawed as they quote a "free field" test sound level which means that during the test there are no reflective surfaces for sounds to bounce off and the unit is basically clear of any obstructions and they manufactures do not have to record lower frequencies.  Nor do they take into account that rural village sound levels are lower than 40dB during the night so when calculations are made the manufacture uses the urban sound levels instead However these units when running emit deep frequency hums that can disturb the sleep. Also the colder or lower atmospheric pressure is the longer the Air Source Heat Pumps run for.  They can be a nuisance for people living near to them. At night prior to the fitting of the ASHP the sound level at night was 29.2dB but now it is between 60db and 75db when they are running and it is agony at night. All measurements have been taken using professional equipment and you can see there is a big difference between the normal quiet village life and when the ASHP's are running. It is so easy for these units to cause health problems as the sound grinds a person down. 

I don't believe you, sorry.

I was just about to say the same and you beat me to it. 😂

As an FYI for the poster @sohekim ,  I live in a very rural village. My heat pump is on the side of my house with a long side garden that extends alongside a foot path. It is very visible for now until my hedge grows. We can hear the owls hooting in the woods and the birds tweeting but everyone that passes my heat pump comments on how quiet it is.  

(Everyone that is except one grumpy old man who told me it wouldn't work in the cold 🫢😁). 

NedS

Reed_Richards said:

I agree with @matelodave, my heat pump makes less noise than the external oil boiler it replaced and less noise than the oil boiler that my neighbours still have.

Same here @Reed_Richards, maybe with the exception of when it's running flat out for 20mins per day doing it's DHW cycle, but I normally run that in quiet mode which limits the compressor to 70%

grumpypensioner

Thought I would add a non grump on heat pumps. Well I like them but not some of the misinformation that surrounds them. Here is my house heating solution. A semi, circa 1950, brick cavity wall, full loft and special double glazing which lets the sun's heat pour through.

I have five heat pumps in my house, a fridge, a deep freezer, a tumble dryer, an air conditioner on the landing controlling upstairs temperatures and humidity, and a simple air stand alone air conditioner in the lower front room (brilliant).

I also have a Baxi gas back boiler (with front fire) heating the water and lower radiators and front room for background warmth, switched off at night. My 45 year old Baxi back boiler (optimised for lower temperature control) has needed no maintenance apart from a compressed air blast and a vacuum, simple robust design. Lower efficiency than modern designs but compare that with your complex efficient boilers which require maintenance (£180pa?) heavy installation and regular replacement (every 15yrs?). Front gas fire incredibly effective. And I do have CO monitors with plenty of air ventilation (air bricks). Note that ventilation (not drafts) is essential compared with living in a hermetically sealed box.

Auxiliary electric convector heater in my wife's bedroom and a wall fan heater in the bathroom (has Parkinson's and is very sensitive to cold). A spread of technology which works very well. Switched on when needed.

First off, the tumble dryer, a Bosch series 4, (brilliant). It has used £190 during the 30 months I have monitored its usage (about 6 loads per week), internal circulation of air so no exhaust and no heat lost and no humidity, so compare that with your 3kw version which spews out hot wet air. Cost £570 when I bought it but has saved its cost easily.

Next is my Daikin air conditioner on the upper landing which I had installed 35 years ago, zero maintenance, brilliant in heating/cooling/dehumidifying upstairs, has a variable speed screw compressor only actuated by human presence so switches off when not needed and is thus economical (proportional control not on/off). But it can be expensive to run in cooling mode on hot days.

Then there is the free standing Wessex portable air conditioner (see Toolstation) I put in the downstairs lounge (cost under £400 with installation), needs an air duct to the outside and water drain outlets, warms the downstairs area in an hour (for about 40p) from 15 to 22ºC easily so is used only when needed as fan a bit noisy. Unique in that it extracts cold air from the room to leave hot air.

So overall comments; I don't like reliance on a single unit of anything, spread the load, like you should your savings. and have back ups like your computer. Electrical devices are near 100% efficient at producing heat from light bulbs to heaters to motors. Heat pump motors tend to be about one HP or around one KW but have an effective output much greater, direct resistance heaters are what's on the label. The effectiveness of heat pumps depends upon the available temperature difference, so not as good on a cold day when you actually need them. Probable efficiency (difficult to measure) of 2 to 3 times input when good. BUT electrical kWh units cost FOUR times that of gas so they equate with gas heaters!!

And heat pumps for hot water, they are larger beasts and will need a hot water storage tank with associated plumbing where "efficiency" can drop. Best suited for new builds designed for them. Make sure they are sited outside in a warm spot, not hidden around the back. Personally I will stick with my 100% efficient and "green" emersion heater (cost £50, but make sure you can set the temperature to 60º rather than the 70ºC standard), and use the money earned in interest on saving the large heat pump capital/installation costs to offset the possibly higher energy bills.

Hope this stirs your thought.

FreeBear

grumpypensioner said: I also have a Baxi gas back boiler (with front fire) heating the water and lower radiators and front room for background warmth, switched off at night. My 45 year old Baxi back boiler (optimised for lower temperature control) has needed no maintenance apart from a compressed air blast and a vacuum, simple robust design. Lower efficiency than modern designs but compare that with your complex efficient boilers which require maintenance (£180pa?) heavy installation and regular replacement (every 15yrs?). Front gas fire incredibly effective. And I do have CO monitors with plenty of air ventilation (air bricks). Note that ventilation (not drafts) is essential compared with living in a hermetically sealed box.

I too had a Baxi Bermuda back boiler - Yes, dead simple and precious little to go wrong (just a gas valve and a thermocouple). Grossly inefficient at just 65%, and no real way of improving on that. I resorted to turning the gas off during the summer months, and only turning it back on when I needed hot water. Fitting a programmable thermostat that allowed for different temperatures throughout the day/week helped to cut gas consumption further. BG insisted on putting a 230x230mm hole in the wall to ensure there was sufficient air for the boiler. Debatable whether it was really needed, but it certainly helped to keep that room freezing all year round.

Now have a nice new combi boiler (Viessmann 050), and I can now plug that massive hole in the wall and heat the place to a comfortable temperature. Gas consumption has gone from 8,000kWh (or more) down to 2,500kWh per year. OK, having new windows has helped to keep the heat in, but the new boiler is so much more efficient at 94-96%. And I no longer have to plan ahead if I need a bath full of hot water.

Some of the changes I made when getting the new boiler means I'm in a better position to replace it with a heat pump when the time comes (bigger radiators in most rooms, larger pipes, etc).

grumpypensioner

FreeBear said:

grumpypensioner said: I also have a Baxi gas back boiler (with front fire) heating the water and lower radiators and front room for background warmth, switched off at night. My 45 year old Baxi back boiler (optimised for lower temperature control) has needed no maintenance apart from a compressed air blast and a vacuum, simple robust design. Lower efficiency than modern designs but compare that with your complex efficient boilers which require maintenance (£180pa?) heavy installation and regular replacement (every 15yrs?). Front gas fire incredibly effective. And I do have CO monitors with plenty of air ventilation (air bricks). Note that ventilation (not drafts) is essential compared with living in a hermetically sealed box.

I too had a Baxi Bermuda back boiler - Yes, dead simple and precious little to go wrong (just a gas valve and a thermocouple). Grossly inefficient at just 65%, and no real way of improving on that. I resorted to turning the gas off during the summer months, and only turning it back on when I needed hot water. Fitting a programmable thermostat that allowed for different temperatures throughout the day/week helped to cut gas consumption further. BG insisted on putting a 230x230mm hole in the wall to ensure there was sufficient air for the boiler. Debatable whether it was really needed, but it certainly helped to keep that room freezing all year round.

Now have a nice new combi boiler (Viessmann 050), and I can now plug that massive hole in the wall and heat the place to a comfortable temperature. Gas consumption has gone from 8,000kWh (or more) down to 2,500kWh per year. OK, having new windows has helped to keep the heat in, but the new boiler is so much more efficient at 94-96%. And I no longer have to plan ahead if I need a bath full of hot water.

Some of the changes I made when getting the new boiler means I'm in a better position to replace it with a heat pump when the time comes (bigger radiators in most rooms, larger pipes, etc).

Thank you for the interesting and excellent comments, points noted. I too suffered a big hole due to BG which I converted into a duct for my free standing air conditioner and which solved cold ingress and ventilation!
I am tempted to provide a summary of our investigations, please correct if necessary.
Heat pumps are good, but tend to generate low grade heat so are excellent for providing warm air at reduced cost.
Air to water heat pumps operate at a lower temperature than conventional system so you will need modified equipment to match existing requirements. Larger radiators and new storage tanks etc.. But very good for under floor heating? Cost of £ energy usage per output is equivalent to current gas systems under the same conditions, so no immediate savings to offset new large capital outlay, payback time will be significant. Climate concerns faster.
Change depends on what you already have and its problems. Every house/situation is different.
I am in my mid 80's and live in an old warm house with a mix of old and new technologies, change is not for me at this time; unless my old gas boiler blows up! So no real panacea for my heating bills then apart from lowering the temperature. Someone once told me that to save money is not to spend it. Felicitations.

BoYaNY73

I live next door to a ASHP system and the noise is driving me crazy! I don’t know what to do. Owners say they don’t hear a thing and it was properly installed. I feel the only way forward is to sell up and move house. Help!