Smart Parking Overstay at SPA Crewe, Cheshire (Camera is wrong)

Alex2013

Hi Everyone,

This is pretty straightforward but I thought it ight be useful as this isn't an isolated event but I haven't see this issue on the threads. I also haven't used the templates before but cannot locate them so can someone advise me where they are please.

I received a PCN from Smart stating I had overstayed at SPA Crewe, CW2 6DR on 08/11/2024  the date the PCN was issued was 09/11/2024 which arrived by post on the 14/11/2024.

The allegation is that I arrived at  08:24:07  on the 08/11 and departed the car park at 16:16:04 the same day.

The truth of this matter is that the camera is wrong! and so are the dates.

The date of contravention is 08/11 which is a Sunday (It should be Monday 9/11)

On the 9/11/2024 I did enter the SPA car park at 08:24 to drop my son off to join his friends and walk to school but I left the car park within 2-3 minutes and drove to Worcester, WR4 9WN for a business meeting.

I left Worcester at 13:55 and returned to Crewe to collect my son from the same car park at 15:49 I grabbed a meal deal as I hadn't eaten which I eat in the car (receipt available) and then departed the car park at 16:16.  The entry and departure times are correct so I assume that the camera has captured  my departure or reentry or maybe the software they use has malfunctioned. .
The time allowed to park is 30 minutes. This car park is small  25- ish parking bays and is (VERY) busy at school drop off and collection times and it can take 10 minutes to get a space and the same to get out with a queue of reversing vehicles trying to form a queue to exit.  

I have a timeline on Google that shows my journey so I can prove the PCN is incorrect on both counts is there anything to be aware of before I respond and is there a template I can use as a base for my letter.  Thanks in advance.

Gr1pr

The allegations concern the vehicle and driver,  not you per se 

Smart Parking dont comply with Pofa,  so no keeper liability,  so forget about stories,  appeal as keeper using a typical Pofa appeal as seen below 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6559924/advice-about-pcn-received-from-smart-parking-do-they-ever-go-to-court?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=smart+parking+template+

No blabbing about who was driving or about the incident itself 

Grizebeck

use this to beat smart

This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw

Coupon-mad

Alex2013 said:

Hi Everyone,

This is pretty straightforward but I thought it ight be useful as this isn't an isolated event but I haven't see this issue on the threads. I also haven't used the templates before but cannot locate them so can someone advise me where they are please.

I received a PCN from Smart stating I had overstayed at SPA Crewe, CW2 6DR on 08/11/2024  the date the PCN was issued was 09/11/2024 which arrived by post on the 14/11/2024.

The allegation is that I arrived at  08:24:07  on the 08/11 and departed the car park at 16:16:04 the same day.

The truth of this matter is that the camera is wrong! and so are the dates.

The date of contravention is 08/11 which is a Sunday (It should be Monday 9/11)

On the 9/11/2024 I did enter the SPA car park at 08:24 to drop my son off to join his friends and walk to school but I left the car park within 2-3 minutes and drove to Worcester, WR4 9WN for a business meeting.

I left Worcester at 13:55 and returned to Crewe to collect my son from the same car park at 15:49 I grabbed a meal deal as I hadn't eaten which I eat in the car (receipt available) and then departed the car park at 16:16.  The entry and departure times are correct so I assume that the camera has captured  my departure or reentry or maybe the software they use has malfunctioned. .
The time allowed to park is 30 minutes. This car park is small  25- ish parking bays and is (VERY) busy at school drop off and collection times and it can take 10 minutes to get a space and the same to get out with a queue of reversing vehicles trying to form a queue to exit.  

I have a timeline on Google that shows my journey so I can prove the PCN is incorrect on both counts is there anything to be aware of before I respond and is there a template I can use as a base for my letter.  Thanks in advance.

Yes the keeper appeals as above.

Do not appeal with words that imply who was driving. No "I returned" etc.

What you are describing is known as an:

ANPR flaw double dip

Search the forum for those words.  Very common. Read about it from the search results.

Also complain to the retailer that the ANPR cameras are causing PCNs to be churned out based on TWO short visits in a 24 hour period, which means Smart are breaching the BPA CoP by not carrying out the mandatory human checks.

And show the retail park your Google timeline without implying who was actually driving (say 'we' to avoid that) if you are certain that the car was not in the retail park at all on 8th.

Double check because I'd be VERY surprised if the date is wrong, especially given they got DVLA data on 9th.  I think someone was driving your car on the Sunday so don't get distracted by that date.

Not that the appeal needs ANY of that!

Alex2013

Hi All , Thank for your comments and responses.

Coupon-mad;  Thanks I will complain to the retailer as described.  Re the date - they have definitely got it wrong I am the only driver and was elsewhere on that day.
Grizebeck,  Thanks, I do have a 10-digit POPLA code on the PCNN starting with TC and 8 digits.
Gr1pr: Thanks, i will review the linked attachment letter and take the advice. I will post the letter for review before sending.

Gr1pr

Add the popla appeal sentence regarding no landowner contract,  as seen in other replies about popla by Grizebeck on here  ( not the one above   )

Alex2013

Gr1pr.  Forgive my lack of knowledge with regard to this matter i am googling the abbreviated names as I type   The link you sent me shows different responses.  2.) and 3.) refer to POPLA codes as something significant with regard to compliance but the PCNN I have received does have a 10-digit code starting with TC.  Does this make a difference to the way I respond? if the answer is Yes, 1.) looks more suitable;

[Dear Smart Parking

I am writing to formally dispute the parking charge notice (PCN) issued to vehicle registration 12345. As the registered keeper, I deny any liability or contractual agreement. I will be filing a complaint with your client, the landowner, regarding your predatory conduct.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving the vehicle, and no assumptions should be made. The PCN provided lacks clarity, so I request a detailed explanation of the allegation along with supporting evidence. This must include a close-up photograph of the sign at the location on the date in question, as well as images of the vehicle time and date stamped .

The allegation pertains to an overstay which we categorically refute please supply evidence of the agreed grace period from the landowner.

I look forward to your prompt response.

Yours sincerely,]

Is this sufficient to send?  and thank you all for providing valuable support .) Without your feedback, I would have approached the response very differently.

Gr1pr

No

If you have not yet appealed to Smart Parking,  then do so as described by Grizebeck above first , a Pofa based appeal by the keeper 

If smart don't cancel it,  they will respond with a rejection and a 10 digit popla code for a subsequent appeal to POPLA 

Then you would use the no landowner contract appeal to popla 

So understand the 2 different stages,  one follows the other

Coupon-mad

Grizebeck said:

use this to beat smart

This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw

This is all you need. You already had it!

Alex2013

Grizebeck;  Just cut and paste what you have written above into a letter and that is sufficient? WOW

Grizebeck

Yes of course it is . Otherwise I wouldn't have posted it..I don't do stuff to waste my time
Not a letter 
You do it online