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dont_use_vistaprint

I’ve been learning a little about S&S as I want to shift some cash savings as the savings rates fall.

Is now a potentially bad time start ? Are things going a bit flat globally and could begin to dip ?

what would you do if looking  to shift around 150 K from ISA and non-ISA cash to ISA and non ISA S&S drip feed monthly or stick it all on something like FTSE All markets ? Or pause and do nothing for a while ? 

Alexland

dont_use_vistaprint said:

I’ve been learning a little about S&S as I want to shift some cash savings as the savings rates fall.

Is now a potentially bad time start ? Are things going a bit flat globally and could begin to dip ?

Yes it is potentially a bad time to start but that's usually the case as there's always something to worry about and equity markets spend most of their time near all time highs. Even if you are the world's worst market timer then it should be fine eventually but that might not be much comfort if you invest a lump sum now and have to wait a decade for it to recover,

So is now a particularly bad time to invest? That question depends on what assets you were going to invest in. The price of bonds looks reasonable now (it was a clearly bad time to invest in them a few year ago) and if you think that interest rates will fall then there could be good opportunity for capital growth on bonds.  Interest rates falling would usually be positive for equities too particularly the growth style companies however the US ones are already on high valuations but they may end up justifying them through improved earnings it doesn't mean they will crash. Even if share prices do crash that can be positive for long term returns as there would be a period where dividends are being reinvested at lower unit prices.

If there was a consensus that now is a bad time to invest then for those of us already invested we would be selling down our investments causing prices to fall so there must be some confidence about future long term returns being attractive with an understanding that it could be volatile along the way.

dont_use_vistaprint said:

what would you do if looking  to shift around 150 K from ISA and non-ISA cash to ISA and non ISA S&S drip feed monthly or stick it all on something like FTSE All markets ? Or pause and do nothing for a while ? 

If you are thinking of putting it into a global tracker fund then that might be fine in the very long term but the lack of asset class diversification makes it more likely you end up with a lost decade of poor returns situation. Given the fairly attractive return on cash and bonds at the moment then I would lean towards a more diversified multi asset portfolio (sounds like you were already planning to keep some cash) then you have hedged your bets a little and given yourself options to enhance your return even in bad periods by rebalancing the portfolio. If you only hold crashed equities you are kinda stuck until they recover.

I was 100% equities for a number of years while bond prices were uninvestable to me and while the returns were great it was annoying feeling the market was making me take more risk than I was comfortable with. Now we are back to a position where multi asset portfolios seems to be a good way to be positioned.

InvesterJones

dont_use_vistaprint said:

I’ve been learning a little about S&S as I want to shift some cash savings as the savings rates fall.

Is now a potentially bad time start ? Are things going a bit flat globally and could begin to dip ?

what would you do if looking  to shift around 150 K from ISA and non-ISA cash to ISA and non ISA S&S drip feed monthly or stick it all on something like FTSE All markets ? Or pause and do nothing for a while ? 

Taken in isolation, you'd need to provide some more information to the above before you could form an answer - namely, what timescale investment are you talking about, what's your appetite for risk, and what your other financial situations are for e.g. around pension.

From the above it sounds like you just want to beat the return compared to cash savings, so going 100% equities is quite a lot of volatility and you'd need to give it a long enough timespan to recover. If you are a long term investor then you can do so, so you don't need to worry about it being a bad time to start or not. If you are medium or short term however, consider going less than 100% equities, so you've got less volatility and potentially less time to recover if now was a bad starting place.

eskbanker

dont_use_vistaprint said:

I’ve been learning a little about S&S as I want to shift some cash savings as the savings rates fall.

Is now a potentially bad time start ? Are things going a bit flat globally and could begin to dip ?

what would you do if looking  to shift around 150 K from ISA and non-ISA cash to ISA and non ISA S&S drip feed monthly or stick it all on something like FTSE All markets ? Or pause and do nothing for a while ? 

The usual adage is 'time in the market, not timing the market', which is intended to convey that investment is a long-term activity and that, given that the overall trend is upwards over enough time, the longer you're invested the better, rather than trying to identify an optimal entry point, which is notoriously difficult to do, even for professional investors.

Statistical analyses support this, so in general it's best to commit your money as soon as it's available, rather than drip-feeding....

dont_use_vistaprint

InvesterJones said:

dont_use_vistaprint said:

I’ve been learning a little about S&S as I want to shift some cash savings as the savings rates fall.

Is now a potentially bad time start ? Are things going a bit flat globally and could begin to dip ?

what would you do if looking  to shift around 150 K from ISA and non-ISA cash to ISA and non ISA S&S drip feed monthly or stick it all on something like FTSE All markets ? Or pause and do nothing for a while ? 

Taken in isolation, you'd need to provide some more information to the above before you could form an answer - namely, what timescale investment are you talking about, what's your appetite for risk, and what your other financial situations are for e.g. around pension.

From the above it sounds like you just want to beat the return compared to cash savings, so going 100% equities is quite a lot of volatility and you'd need to give it a long enough timespan to recover. If you are a long term investor then you can do so, so you don't need to worry about it being a bad time to start or not. If you are medium or short term however, consider going less than 100% equities, so you've got less volatility and potentially less time to recover if now was a bad starting place.

Hi this is medium term 5-15 years. This is spare cash at the moment but will be used later in
life to supplement SP and a smallish DBP when my DC pension empties. You may say why not leave your DB pension pot alone and spend this money now and that’s an option, I may do,  which is why it’s held in cash, but I want to beat the savings rates as they drop .

im fairly flexible and reasonably relaxed around some volatility,  , I want to see it growing though year by year , I don’t think I have the stomach for a lost decade or even a half decade. 

dont_use_vistaprint

Alexland said:

dont_use_vistaprint said:

I’ve been learning a little about S&S as I want to shift some cash savings as the savings rates fall.

Is now a potentially bad time start ? Are things going a bit flat globally and could begin to dip ?

Yes it is potentially a bad time to start but that's usually the case as there's always something to worry about and equity markets spend most of their time near all time highs. Even if you are the world's worst market timer then it should be fine eventually but that might not be much comfort if you invest a lump sum now and have to wait a decade for it to recover,

So is now a particularly bad time to invest? That question depends on what assets you were going to invest in. The price of bonds looks reasonable now (it was a clearly bad time to invest in them a few year ago) and if you think that interest rates will fall then there could be good opportunity for capital growth on bonds.  Interest rates falling would usually be positive for equities too particularly the growth style companies however the US ones are already on high valuations but they may end up justifying them through improved earnings it doesn't mean they will crash. Even if share prices do crash that can be positive for long term returns as there would be a period where dividends are being reinvested at lower unit prices.

If there was a consensus that now is a bad time to invest then for those of us already invested we would be selling down our investments causing prices to fall so there must be some confidence about future long term returns being attractive with an understanding that it could be volatile along the way.

dont_use_vistaprint said:

what would you do if looking  to shift around 150 K from ISA and non-ISA cash to ISA and non ISA S&S drip feed monthly or stick it all on something like FTSE All markets ? Or pause and do nothing for a while ? 

If you are thinking of putting it into a global tracker fund then that might be fine in the very long term but the lack of asset class diversification makes it more likely you end up with a lost decade of poor returns situation. Given the fairly attractive return on cash and bonds at the moment then I would lean towards a more diversified multi asset portfolio (sounds like you were already planning to keep some cash) then you have hedged your bets a little and given yourself options to enhance your return even in bad periods by rebalancing the portfolio. If you only hold crashed equities you are kinda stuck until they recover.

I was 100% equities for a number of years while bond prices were uninvestable to me and while the returns were great it was annoying feeling the market was making me take more risk than I was comfortable with. Now we are back to a position where multi asset portfolios seems to be a good way to be positioned.

What are some bonds that might  be worth looking into? 

Would gilts be an option are they likely to pay better than cash ISA in the next few years?

I have some experience of treasury bills when I was ex-pat & exempt from capital gains tax. These were a good option because they paid no coupon, guaranteed a capital growth return. Is this  kind of thing likely beat cash  ISA going forward? 

Alexland

Gilts are looking attractive for what they are but try and put your mind to constructing a portfolio of assets that are suitable for your investment timescales and risk tolerance.

If you buy and hold a gilt to maturity you know the return you will get but who knows if that will be better or worse than variable cash savings rates.

Eyeful

" I want to see it growing though year by year , I don’t think I have the stomach for a lost decade or even a half decade". 

1. No one can predict the future, so no one will be able to tell you how the markets will move.
Investing is basically a long term gamble. The longer you invest, the better your odds of winning the game (stay invested for at least 10 years).
Investing is not like savings there are no guarantees you will not lose.
Form what you state, may be you should stick to savings & not invest.

2. If you still think of investing.
Watch this video first: https://www.kroijer.com/
The simplest way of doing this is to consider a low cost passive Global Multi Asset Fund with a share/bond split you are happy with.
Example: https://www.hsbc.co.uk/investments/products/hsbc-global-strategy-portfolios/
Read this: https://monevator.com/passive-fund-of-funds-the-rivals/

4. You could take your own Multi Asset approach, by keeping (cash or gilts) & choosing a low cost passive Global Tracker Fund or ETF.
Example:  Vanguard Funds Plc FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (USD) Accumulating (VWRP)
You decide what percentage of your money to put into shares & how much to keep in cash.
Read this: https://monevator.com/best-global-tracker-funds/

dont_use_vistaprint

Thanks for the advice and information from everyone. It’s really helpful.. 

I think I’m gonna wait just a little while, especially whilst Trading 212 is still giving a fairly decent cash rate with no risk.

this might turn out to be a bad choice, but not as bad as potentially losing money over the next year or so. 

I don’t think I know enough to make the right choices at this point in time.