New employee on same grade being hired at top of pay scale

PinkTrike

Hi,
I work for a very small, non-profit.  My manager is very nervous of and inexperienced in anything to do with HR.  He claims not to have any overview of my salary.  I sit in an office with the woman who handles HR. There is no HR dept. per se.  I like the company I work for, but I am very unhappy with the way salaries and jobs are graded.  This week a salary negotiation resulted in someone new, younger, with a lower level of qualifications than me and less work experience being recruited at the top of the pay scale for my grade.  This person will be earning 30% more than I earn.  I have previously asked my boss for a pay rise and been told that it is just not a possibility. He told me that my position would be regraded so that he could justify a pay rise, but this did not happen.  I know that the recruiting manager for the person on the higher salary is just less nervous about HR matters, so asks for things for her direct reports.  My boss will never do that.  I am fuming, I've only worked here a year and this is the second time this has happened. Both times the other manager was the same person. She's not doing anything wrong.  The person she wants to recruit has asked for more and she's asked in turn and it;s been (grudgingly) granted.  I am solely responsible for the welfare of five humans and I work very hard and earn very little.  I know that the answer is to find a better paid job and leave.  My CV is primed, but that may take a little longer.  Being livid will not help me.  How do I persuade my boss to negotiate for a pay rise for me, without appearing to be moany-mcgroany?  Generally we get on well and if I were to leave tomorrow he would be a bit stuck, but I'm far from indispensable and my job is low-level. It's so frustrating.  I am seriously over-qualified for the job that I do. AARGH!

Emmia

PinkTrike said:

Hi,
I work for a very small, non-profit.  My manager is very nervous of and inexperienced in anything to do with HR.  He claims not to have any overview of my salary.  I sit in an office with the woman who handles HR. There is no HR dept. per se.  I like the company I work for, but I am very unhappy with the way salaries and jobs are graded.  This week a salary negotiation resulted in someone new, younger, with a lower level of qualifications than me and less work experience being recruited at the top of the pay scale for my grade.  This person will be earning 30% more than I earn.  I have previously asked my boss for a pay rise and been told that it is just not a possibility. He told me that my position would be regraded so that he could justify a pay rise, but this did not happen.  I know that the recruiting manager for the person on the higher salary is just less nervous about HR matters, so asks for things for her direct reports.  My boss will never do that.  I am fuming, I've only worked here a year and this is the second time this has happened. Both times the other manager was the same person. She's not doing anything wrong.  The person she wants to recruit has asked for more and she's asked in turn and it;s been (grudgingly) granted.  I am solely responsible for the welfare of five humans and I work very hard and earn very little.  I know that the answer is to find a better paid job and leave.  My CV is primed, but that may take a little longer.  Being livid will not help me.  How do I persuade my boss to negotiate for a pay rise for me, without appearing to be moany-mcgroany?  Generally we get on well and if I were to leave tomorrow he would be a bit stuck, but I'm far from indispensable and my job is low-level. It's so frustrating.  I am seriously over-qualified for the job that I do. AARGH!

The one time you can really negotiate your salary is at the point you're hired. Both of the new people did this...

I did this when I joined the Civil Service. I was offered bottom of the band, which was ~£200 a year more than I was on, but travel costs would be ~£3k a year more. I wasn't willing to take that kind of financial haircut, so I told them that I wanted more, and after some umming and ahhing, I was offered top of the scale. If they hadn't come back and offered me that salary, I wouldn't have joined. I was at an employer who was fast tracking me, so whilst I wanted to join the CS, asking for more was a low risk move 

The truth is, currently you don't have much leverage. You're employed and they think you won't leave, even though they know your salary discontent. Rather than moaning, have you made a business case to justify being paid more? What value are you bringing?

However, in your position I would start job hunting, an offer will give you bargaining power for a higher salary where you are, or a new job that (hopefully) pays better.

(Something to bear in mind, with less than 2 years employment there, you can be let go at anytime, for any reason... )

Undervalued

Unless unlawful discrimination is involved (eg race, gender etc) and providing you are being paid at least the national minimum wage, salaries are entirely a matter for negotiation.

There can be all kinds of reasons (and sometimes no obvious reason at all) why a firm might choose to pay one employee more than the other for similar roles. Emmia mentions one in the post above. Another can simply be how easy or hard it is to recruit somebody judged suitable, at a particular time, which can vary hugely for year to year.

To be blunt, you either need to find the most appropriate way, within your organisation, to negotiate a better deal or look elsewhere.

One further point, you have no right to know what somebody else in the firm is being paid. If they chose to tell you or you came by the information by proper means then fine. If not, be careful how you approach the matter.

Had the new person not been appointed, or if you didn't know what they were being paid, what if anything would you have done about your salary?

PinkTrike

Thank you both.  I think I've clarified this in my own head now. I discussed my salary with my boss towards the end of my probation some months ago. As you rightly say, I need to get myself a job offer and either leave or use it as leverage. I will also rewrite my JD so that it's ready for the two year anniversary. xx

LightFlare

PinkTrike said:

Thank you both.  I think I've clarified this in my own head now. I discussed my salary with my boss towards the end of my probation some months ago. As you rightly say, I need to get myself a job offer and either leave or use it as leverage. I will also rewrite my JD so that it's ready for the two yeah anniversary. xx

That’s for HR.

What you need to do is highlight where your role may differ with increased duties/responsibilities and suggest why that might make you eligible for a wage uplift and/or promotion.

 The danger as always is that the employer responds asking you to stick to your JD and not do those tasks and duties

You need to sell yourself and show that you are capable of that and that they need you to continue doing that

Cobbler_tone

Salary bands are emotive. They are a key part of being able to flex and attract people into roles.

E.g. I have people on a band between £29k-£35k. Someone with 3 years service may be on £31k but you pay a newbie £33k because that’s what it takes to get them in. That newbie may end up being better/weaker than your existing person on a lower range.
It’s not unique and must happen in every business (that uses bands) across the country.
Much more straightforward with an hourly rate.

You can’t just increasing everyone’s salary to the highest common denominator.
In my experience, if money is the sole motivator for someone, then the chances are they will move into a better paid role (if they are a strong performer) or leave the business. Either are fine with me if it develops them as an individual. Turnover is healthy.

General_Grant

LightFlare said:

PinkTrike said:

Thank you both.  I think I've clarified this in my own head now. I discussed my salary with my boss towards the end of my probation some months ago. As you rightly say, I need to get myself a job offer and either leave or use it as leverage. I will also rewrite my JD so that it's ready for the two yeah anniversary. xx

That’s for HR.  [Writing JDs]

What you need to do is highlight where your role may differ with increased duties/responsibilities and suggest why that might make you eligible for a wage uplift and/or promotion.

 The danger as always is that the employer responds asking you to stick to your JD and not do those tasks and duties

You need to sell yourself and show that you are capable of that and that they need you to continue doing that

But if HR doesn't know what a person actually does do, they may well ask that person to re-write the JD because they do know.
It is a good idea to prepare your own JD and, if necessary, point out the differences compared with the existing one.

theoretica

Could you apply for the  jobs advertised under the other manager? 

LightFlare

General_Grant said:

LightFlare said:

PinkTrike said:

Thank you both.  I think I've clarified this in my own head now. I discussed my salary with my boss towards the end of my probation some months ago. As you rightly say, I need to get myself a job offer and either leave or use it as leverage. I will also rewrite my JD so that it's ready for the two yeah anniversary. xx

That’s for HR.  [Writing JDs]

What you need to do is highlight where your role may differ with increased duties/responsibilities and suggest why that might make you eligible for a wage uplift and/or promotion.

 The danger as always is that the employer responds asking you to stick to your JD and not do those tasks and duties

You need to sell yourself and show that you are capable of that and that they need you to continue doing that

But if HR doesn't know what a person actually does do, they may well ask that person to re-write the JD because they do know.
It is a good idea to prepare your own JD and, if necessary, point out the differences compared with the existing one.

True - BUT the OP is asking about a recent new recruit who is getting paid more - either they must have an up to date JD in order to have appointed the person OR they aren’t doing the same job in which case I agree with you but then the pay differential is irrelevant as different roles may attract different levels of remuneration 

PinkTrike

Yeah, to be clear: the standard in my workplace is that if you want a pay rise you are asked to rewrite your JD. There is an HR manager, but their role covers a lot of areas. The company is tiny. The JDs are written by hiring managers. We have a grade system. The other job will not be the same as mine. It will involve a lot of crossover with mine and from recent experience, a lot of me either doing their job or training them to do their job for the first few months. When training and dev opties present themselves, the person at the higher end of the salary scale will be offered those opties, because it will cost less to promote them. I think the good thing about posting here is that it has clarified for me that I am not happy with my role nor the company and I need an exit strategy. Thank you! 

PinkTrike

theoretica said:

Could you apply for the  jobs advertised under the other manager? 

No. It has already been offered and accepted and it would cost more to give me that job and then recruit for my job.