Failure To Register Via App with CPM (Private Operator)

Keep_it_in_the_family

CPM have sent me a PCN. It was free parking for less than 2 hours and I was there for an hour for a health appointment. I have a witness statement from my NHS contact supporting this as a fact. The fine is for not registering properly, even though I thought I did. It was complicated and I did not have my specs so may have made a mistake. My appeal was rejected. Should I go to court ?

Gr1pr

Its certainly a possibility 

Ideally complain about the PCN to the practice manager and get it cancelled ASAP 

Keep_it_in_the_family

Thanks, In fact the office was a remote NHS office (Fusion) and the manager is my witness and supports me. The landowner is Goldings Homes and I do intend to both lodge an appeal with CPM and write and complain to the landowner. I took some advice with a solicitor today (Just Answer £5 trial) She was not optimistic and says going to court is risky, because "a breach is a breach" (ie of not displaying). Will keep y'all posted. 

Coupon-mad

Keep_it_in_the_family said:

Thanks, In fact the office was a remote NHS office (Fusion) and the manager is my witness and supports me. The landowner is Goldings Homes and I do intend to both lodge an appeal with CPM and write and complain to the landowner. I took some advice with a solicitor today (Just Answer £5 trial) She was not optimistic and says going to court is risky, because "a breach is a breach" (ie of not displaying). 

You know she's wrong, yes?

Keep_it_in_the_family

Lol....I do now, thanks. Thanks to you guys and others on this forum I will be taking this all the way. She also tried to convince me that the BPA code of practice is 'not law so will be ignored in my defence' Absolute bull. My belief now is that worst case is human typing error on the app with max £20 penalty. She said not equivalent to eg wrong number plate entry. I disagreed and hope that I'm a test case for many others...

Coupon-mad

Court isn't risky v any parking firm!

What she doesn't know is that UKCPM use Gladstones solicitors who - in our experience - can't properly plead a case for toffee.

Pfazer69

I have also received a fine for forgetting to register my car licence plate on a private hospital App. I was rushing to get to a final Physiotherapy appointment.
After providing my Physiotherapy payment details they stated that the signage is clear but commuted my payment to £20...
I haven't payed.

Keep_it_in_the_family

Hi All,
Finally I am able to report some success on my two invoices from CPM (both in same place.)

On the second one, I beefed up my appeal using the template on MSE, calling out their signage as unclear / too small print, witness statement that saw my best efforts to register, screenshots of my attempts to register on the app, and proof that I had been there less than 2hrs, wich is the free parking period. To my amazement, IAS upheld my appeal !! Is that a first ? So be careful to build as strong a case as possible, stay strong and give it a go. Nothing to lose but time consuming.

The 1st one is more interesting. Appeal rejected by IAS in November, then the inevitable debt collection demands for £170. I decided to write to the landowner (Golding Homes) who effectively employs CPM, complaining about their money-grabbing supplier. Today I got a call from GH, apologising for CPM and reporting that they have instructed them to cancel these invoices and calling off the debt collecting hounds. They admitted that there is a pattern of behaviour and many other similar complaints. Also that any future similar issues to be brought to them for immediate cancellation ...RESULT !!!
Thanks to Coupon-mad and other advice on this forum for giving me strength :-) I will post my strong letter to GH below, which presumably helped.
David

Keep_it_in_the_family

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am looking for your help in supporting my appeals to CPM / IAS for a parking fine invoiced to me last year. There were 2 incidents, very similar in nature. Both involved stays of less than 2 hours (free parking) but with trouble registering on their app., (both 'no permit' )Details are:-

1. PCN 50531887 on 17th October, on an NHS appointment with Fusion.
1. Appealed to CPM and then IAS, BOTH REJECTED. Latter on 12 Dec 2024.
2. PCN 50572461 on 21st November whilst delivering goods to Heart of Kent hospice.
1. Appealed to CPM - rejected, appealed to IAS - ACCEPTED.

Taking #2 first, based on previous rejections, I made a more elaborate appeal that included:-

      Photos of poor (small print) signage

      Screenshots of my attempts to login

      A witness statement from the manager in Heart of Kent who saw my efforts to register.

      Some time after registration and the 20m I spent in the shop I received a 'Location not found' message,         which I proved to be incorrect. Proving that their app is not foolproof.

      I am delighted that they accepted my appeal and can provide all the detailand photos if required.

On #1, my appeal was very similar, ie

      I argued that I made all my best efforts to register (in HoK shop) and being assisted by a young man (I am 70         and not tech-savvy)who was working there. CPM still maintain that my registration failed.

      I have a signed witness statement from NHS / Fusion supporting that my 1 hour appointment (and car        arrival / departure times) were well within the 2 hour free parking period.

      When IAS rejected this appeal, on 12 December they notified me that it would go to arbitration. I have      since heard nothing further re the arbitration process but have received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus      demanding £170 payment, and if not paid, a recommendation for court action against me.

As The Landowner, Please Can You Help ?

I request that in the circumstances that you apply pressure on CPM to cancel #1 too.

I have spoken to staff in Heart of Kent and Fusion who have heard of many similar instances, also to outraged passers-by at the site who are equally upset. I understand that your agent CPM is a business and intent on applying their procedure 'to the letter'. However, It would appear that CPM (and IAS) are over-zealous in their charging and debt-collection processes. Please consider my request compassionately on the following grounds:-

1. My upheld appeal #2 suggests that the app is not infallible and/or the signage is inadequate.
2. Some of the signage is poor (small print) and is not helpful in how to navigate their convoluted app, especially for the elderly, poor-sighted and those who are not app aware.
1. It seems that they are making it difficult on purpose to gain revenue.
3. I was clearly eligible (witness statement) for the 2 hours free parking. Their 'loss' was zero for charges not paid.
4. CPM / IAS have a very bad reputation on these matters.
1. The alternative appeal body (POPLA, not linked with CPM) have a much fairer approach to such appeals and there are cases on the web where similar appeals have been upheld. Probably why CPM don't use them.
5. The Government (Gove) drafted legislation in 2020 to deal with 'sharp practices' in this arena. It never made it onto the statute books (maybe COVID got in the way?) However, since then the main points have been issued Oct 2024 3 as a Code of Practice' (Link removed under MSE terms) This includes ruling out ridiculous £170 penalties for what may have been genuine typing errors. (Although I am not admitting to that). 
1. In many cases this has been reduced to £20 for cost of admin..
6. This is bad for businesses such as Heart of Kent and clients of Fusion and generally bad for the community.
7. I do feel strongly about this injustice and I am prepared to go to court, my MP, social media etc. over this.
1. Please do not take this as a threat - I would dearly love to avoid this - it's just that there is a  principle at stake here for me.
8. I am able to offer some helpful suggestions on how future such incidents could be avoided, if of any interest.     Albeit it may not be in CPM's financial interest !

Thank you for taking the time to understand my case(s).

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Coupon-mad

That is all BRILLIANT!

An IAS win is as rare as hen's teeth and a landowner stepping in and admitting there's "a pattern" that has concerned them enough to tell you to "bring any future similar issues to them for immediate cancellation" is great news because they'll sack UKCPM soon, IMHO. 

Please could you post about your landowner complaint success in SUCCESSFUL COMPLAINTS ABOUT PPCs (it's linked in Crabman's sticky thread)?

State which PPC you beat and who to contact to get unfair PCNs cancelled at which site, and then provide a URL to this thread.

  

Keep_it_in_the_family

After my (and others) complaint to the landowner, I revisited the site yesterday, ready to screenshot all steps in my registration. RESULT... the landowner has fired CPM... sign in at charity shop, no QR code and all parking warden vultures have not been seen for 2 weeks. VICTORY for the common man :-)