Bought a TV and Soundbar from Costco Online but they wont accept a return for the TV

sheramber

Grumpy_chap said:

Okell said:

Alderbank said:

'It is possible that some Membership classes will make this a business purchase.'

'It may also depend on what type of membership the OP has. If it’s an individual membership, then of course consumer rights apply. However, if the OP has a trade membership, I doubt it.' 

I don't agree.
Whether the buyer is a consumer or not is a question of fact. If the OP is acting wholly or mainly outside their business then the contract of sale is covered by CRA. Costco's membership T&Cs can't change or override the OP's consumer rights.

We don't know the OP's occupation, but if he is a HGV driver for instance then buying the TV for his domestic use is a consumer purchase regardless of what membership he has at Costco.
Equally, if he runs a training business for example and the IT equipment is for use in one of his training rooms or he is a hotelier and it is for a guest bedroom then consumer rights would not apply even if he has an individual membership.

I would say this ^^^ is the correct view.

What determines whether a particular purchase is or is not a consumer purchase is the purpose of the purchase and not whatever membership status the purchaser has

I am not sure that I agree.
I am a Costco Trade Member.
The Trade Membership is intended to "let you purchase products for your business or for resale"
To obtain Trade Membership, you need to provide evidence of being a business.
The Trade Membership is in the name of the business (company name) and the card holder is secondary.  A bit like a business credit card is in the name of the business but still references the individual.
Every receipt is in the name of the business.

Let's consider, for example, Howden's is trade only.  OP owns a business that holds a Howden's account. 
OP visits and buys a set of kitchen units on Tuesday and fits those in the house of a customer.  Clearly trade.  The invoice /receipt from Howden's is correctly made out to the business.
OP visits on Saturday and buys another set of kitchen units and installs in own home.  Invoice / receipt is still made out to the business.  What has happened, in effect is Howdens sold to OP's Business and then OP's Business sold to OP.  OP has consumer rights against OP's Business.
If the purchase has been accepted with the invoice / receipt made out to the business, then it has to be a business purchase.

I would consider a Costco Trade Membership to be similar to a Howden's Account - trade only and all invoices / receipts made out to the business.

Notwithstanding the above, Costco's own policy on returns (for Trade and Individual Membership) is in excess of consumer rights.  The OP should pursue a return under that policy.
What appears to be the case is the OP purchased a bundle and, for some reason, unable to return the whole bundle.  This seems to be the crux of the matter.

Is this like the "buy 4 for the price of 3" you get in supermarkets?  I notice a recent purchase I made did not show three items at £1 each and then one item for free, but the receipt showed four items at £0.75 each.  Is it similar with the bundle the OP has purchased?  Purchased a TV, say £1,400 plus a soundbar, say £300 but then got a discount  £200 off the bundle.  Does the receipt now show TV ( £1,400 - £160 = £1,240 ) plus soundbar ( £300 - £40 = £260 ) so to return just the TV would result in the "incorrect" refund?

It would really help to understand why the OP cannot return the complete bundle and buy the soundbar at full price.

He says he cannot return it because

 he has mounted it on his wall and no longer has the packaging. 

He doesn’t want to return it. 

It is now more expensive to buy.

Okell

Grumpy_chap said:

Okell said:

Alderbank said:

'It is possible that some Membership classes will make this a business purchase.'

'It may also depend on what type of membership the OP has. If it’s an individual membership, then of course consumer rights apply. However, if the OP has a trade membership, I doubt it.' 

I don't agree.
Whether the buyer is a consumer or not is a question of fact. If the OP is acting wholly or mainly outside their business then the contract of sale is covered by CRA. Costco's membership T&Cs can't change or override the OP's consumer rights.

We don't know the OP's occupation, but if he is a HGV driver for instance then buying the TV for his domestic use is a consumer purchase regardless of what membership he has at Costco.
Equally, if he runs a training business for example and the IT equipment is for use in one of his training rooms or he is a hotelier and it is for a guest bedroom then consumer rights would not apply even if he has an individual membership.

I would say this ^^^ is the correct view.

What determines whether a particular purchase is or is not a consumer purchase is the purpose of the purchase and not whatever membership status the purchaser has

I am not sure that I agree.
I am a Costco Trade Member.
The Trade Membership is intended to "let you purchase products for your business or for resale"
To obtain Trade Membership, you need to provide evidence of being a business.
The Trade Membership is in the name of the business (company name) and the card holder is secondary.  A bit like a business credit card is in the name of the business but still references the individual.
Every receipt is in the name of the business...

Why does it matter what costco say?  

The Regulations say that a consumer is "... an individual acting for purposes which are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession..."

If the OP bought the TV to watch it at home in his personal capacity when he's not working, it's a consumer purchase by definition.  

It's irrelevant what his account status or class of membership is with Costco.

(Although costco might be able to take action under their own rules and cancel his membership or whatever.  But what they can't do - if he bought it in a personal as opposed to a trade capacity - is deny his right to cancel on the grounds that it wasn't a consumer purchase)

But all that is moot as I don't think the regs allow the OP to pick and choose what part or parts of the contract he can cancel.  The wording of the regs only allow him to cancel the whole of a contract, not part of it.

Grumpy_chap

peddlewoods said:

If i bought a PS4 for £400 and a game for £50 and the retailer said you can get a £20 discount for buying both together, and i then decide to return the game, i would expect to be able to return just the game, but acknowledge i should only get £30 back for the game as the discount should be removed at point of return.

In my situation I am happy for the £200 discount to be removed - the fact i bought both together shouldn't matter whether i can return one without the other. I'm not trying to benefit, just want to return the TV.

I am not sure you are quite trying to do what is described there.

If you buy a PS4 (£400) plus a game (£50) and receive discount (£20) but then return the game and only receive £30 refund (assuming game is still sealed software), you have purchased the item and returned the accessory.

With the TV plus soundbar, you are trying to return the item (TV) but keep the accessory (soundbar).  It is quite different.  This type of promotion is often geared as "upsell" for a low-demand accessory.

I think any discussion about returning part of the bundle is possibly moot.  If the TV plus soundbar came in one box at £1,700, you'd not be able to return just one part - why should that be different if there are two boxes that qualify for the same £1,700 price.  you did not buy the £1,400 TV plus the £500 soundbar and pay £1,900.

Okell said:

Why does it matter what costco say?  

The Regulations say that a consumer is "... an individual acting for purposes which are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession..."

If the OP bought the TV to watch it at home in his personal capacity when he's not working, it's a consumer purchase by definition.  

It's irrelevant what his account status or class of membership is with Costco.

I am not sure it is just what Costco say.

Costco sold the item to OP's Business and that fact is recorded in the invoice / receipt.  Costco did not sell the item to OP.  Costco will not have known in which capacity the OP purchased the item.  As far as Costco are concerned they sold the item to OP's Business and recorded that on the sales documentation.  If OP did not accept that status at the time of purchase, OP should have challenged the receipt being made out to the incorrect entity.

Okell

@Grumpy_chap

Where does it say that Costco need to know the purpose of the purchase for the OP to be a consumer?

“Consumer” and “trader”

4.  In these Regulations—

“consumer” means an individual acting for purposes which are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession;

“trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

Grumpy_chap

Okell said:

@Grumpy_chap

Where does it say that Costco need to know the purpose of the purchase for the OP to be a consumer?

“Consumer” and “trader”

4.  In these Regulations—

“consumer” means an individual acting for purposes which are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession;

“trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

I think as far as Costco are concerned, this is a matter of fact.  Costco have sold a product and issued the sales receipt / invoice in the name of OP's Business.  That fact makes it a trade sale - if the OP wanted this as a consumer purchase, the OP should have challenged the receipt at the time it was issued.

If OP's Business subsequently sold the item to the OP, then OP has consumer rights against OP's Business.  That subsequent resale from OP's Business to OP can be with or without mark-up as that is a commercial decision for OP's Business.

If the item has not been sold on from OP's Business to OP, then the item remains the property of OP's Business.

The need to understand and keep separate Business and Personal transactions and accounts does arise with frequency in these boards.

The records would seem to evidence that the OP's Business made the purchase from Costco, not the OP.

PHK

Okell said:

@Grumpy_chap

Where does it say that Costco need to know the purpose of the purchase for the OP to be a consumer?

“Consumer” and “trader”

4.  In these Regulations—

“consumer” means an individual acting for purposes which are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession;

“trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

I don't think it needs to. The OP will have signed to say that purchases on a trade membership/account are for the business. The business will have paid for the item, not the OP.  (Setting up the account needs proof of the business, a signed application and proof of ID of the person) 

It would be difficult for the OP to subsequently claim they were acting as an individual consumer. 

But anyway, this is a bit of a sideline, their returns policy goes beyond that what would have been afforded by law. The difficulty is that the OP can't undo the transaction. If you think about it, to do what the OP wants would mean rewriting the original invoice (already paid) to show the discount against the TV only. Even if that were somehow possible then it would leave the OP with paperwork showing the soundbar valued at more than they paid for it. Which would cause an issue should the soundbar develop a fault.  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

PHK said:The business will have paid for the item, not the OP.

I don't have anything new to add to the whole trade only debate, however on this point there isn't really such a thing as a "business" in the sense being spoken.

If the OP is involved with a Limited Company and the funds used to make the purchase came from the LTD's bank account then there is no question, the goods belong to the LTD, that is because the money and assets an LTD have belong to the LTD rather than an individual or group of people, i.e an LTD is it's own legal entity.

If however OP is a sole trader then they are simply a person who trades, there is no obligation to have a business account with a bank or indeed to keep trading and personal funds in separate accounts (it is of course wise to do so so that you can more easily demonstrate your finances should you ever have to do so). 

In addition, correct me if I'm wrong, but does Costco not allow customers to add a new card/retain more than one card on file, when completing Checkout?