Ageing father - options to keep his account(s) secure

elsien

400ixl said:

Ballard said:

His driving is another concern that we will need to tackle, but that’s not something that I need advice from on the forum. 

You (he) needs to be speaking to his GP not asking a forum.

They are  not asking for advice about this as the section you have quoted makes clear. 

Section62

elsien said:

What makes you think he would do it again having been caught out once because that makes most people more careful?
What I do with my mother is keep an eye on the latest scams doing the rounds and then talk them through with her, reinforcing anything she’s not sure about call me first. I’m signed up to a local Police fraud update which I also pass on to her.

I think there may well be cause for the OP to be concerned - that this happened "over several days" and continued despite the OP's mum "begging him to hang up" is a bit of a red flag for me, based on personal experience (I don't know the OP's parents, so don't know if this experience transfers).

I think it can be particularly difficult for a person who has always been "the decision maker" to acknowledge their decision making isn't always as good as it used to be... rejecting advice from those close to them is (I feel) part of the decline, as if accepting someone's advice is undermining their belief in their ability to make the right decisions.  The equivalent is when losing physical strength to be more determined to do physical tasks and not ask for or accept help, even where it involves placing themselves in danger of serious injury.

I've just seen the OP's further post that this has happened before and there is a possible cognitive issue.  I can empathise with the OP, it is a really unpleasant situation to be in.

One possible practical thing to consider is a change of phone number - although that isn't always easy either.

Ballard

400ixl said:

Ballard said:

His driving is another concern that we will need to tackle, but that’s not something that I need advice from on the forum. 

You (he) needs to be speaking to his GP not asking a forum.

Hence I’ve said that I’m not asking for advice from here. 

Ballard

Thanks for the comments, everyone. It seems as though the options are limited with regards to his finances but the replies are appreciated. 

Section62

elsien said:

400ixl said:

Ballard said:

His driving is another concern that we will need to tackle, but that’s not something that I need advice from on the forum. 

You (he) needs to be speaking to his GP not asking a forum.

They are  not asking for advice about this as the section you have quoted makes clear. 

Moreover, whilst talking to the GP about health concerns is always the right thing to do, there is probably not much they can practically do at this stage.  The threshold for a GP to report something to DVLA is quite high, unless it is one of those conditions (e.g. seizures) which are more immediate.

If everyone who occasionally got lost while driving had their licence removed then the roads would be much less congested.

Commenting generally, not giving advice to the OP as such, but something like the IAM mature driver review is quite a useful thing to do, but obviously the person has got to want to do it themselves, not be forced into doing it.

https://www.iamroadsmart.com/courses/mature-driver-review

Barkin

OP - how is the LPA set up? A financial LPA can be made so that either:

1) it can only be used when the the donor no longer has mentsl capacity, or...
2) as soon as it's registered with OPG.

My father-in-law's was 2)

When we had a similar situation, my wife registered the LPA with his bank. She got her own debit card and online/app access to his account.

She changed his login details, so that he couldn't login himself, and "confiscated" his debit card. 

All of his bills were paid by DD, and she gave him enough cash that he could pop out for a pint, buy a lottery ticket etc.

We kept a close eye on any mail that was delivered. 

Not an ideal or foolproof solution, but it worked for us. 

xylophone

Scams are such a worry, and I think older people are more vulnerable to them (even when capable of making decisions), 

Indeed - 

One of HSBC's most loyal customers, John, an 87-year-old client of 66 years, received a call he thought was from the police. The caller claimed to be investigating fraud involving a member of HSBC's staff, and convinced John to assist in a sting operation.   The scammers told John to buy gold bullion. The gold was delivered to him by a genuine gold merchant and the scammers arranged for a courier to pick it up from him, saying that it would be used to trap the alleged thief by taking their fingerprints.    Trusting what he was told, and keen to help, John made 16 payments to a gold merchant over the summer months, adding up to more than £350,000. Despite the size of the transactions, the scammers were able to evade fraud detection measures. The gold merchant was genuine, and John had been told by the scammers not to disclose the reason he was buying the gold, or the 'investigation' he was helping them with. So when HSBC queried him, he gave the bank false information.   John continued to buy gold and hand it over to what he thought was the police via the 'couriers' the scammers arranged. He only realised he might have been the victim of a scam when he got an email from HSBC warning customers about gold scams and courier fraud.   This case in particular shows the levels of meticulous planning and patience used by scammers - and the impact this can have on vulnerable individuals. John genuinely thought he was helping the police.

elsien

Barkin said:

OP - how is the LPA set up? A financial LPA can be made so that either:

1) it can only be used when the the donor no longer has mentsl capacity, or...
2) as soon as it's registered with OPG.

My father-in-law's was 2)

When we had a similar situation, my wife registered the LPA with his bank. She got her own debit card and online/app access to his account.

She changed his login details, so that he couldn't login himself, and "confiscated" his debit card. 

All of his bills were paid by DD, and she gave him enough cash that he could pop out for a pint, buy a lottery ticket etc.

We kept a close eye on any mail that was delivered. 

Not an ideal or foolproof solution, but it worked for us. 

Even if it is set up to be used while the person has capacity, any actions taken must be with the person's full agreement and consent. You cannot unilaterally confiscate a card or change log in details for someone who has capacity around their own finances. That is a breach of the LPA and puts you in safeguarding territory. And as above, they can retract that consent at any point while they still have the capacity to do so. 

Barkin

elsien said:

Barkin said:

OP - how is the LPA set up? A financial LPA can be made so that either:

1) it can only be used when the the donor no longer has mentsl capacity, or...
2) as soon as it's registered with OPG.

My father-in-law's was 2)

When we had a similar situation, my wife registered the LPA with his bank. She got her own debit card and online/app access to his account.

She changed his login details, so that he couldn't login himself, and "confiscated" his debit card. 

All of his bills were paid by DD, and she gave him enough cash that he could pop out for a pint, buy a lottery ticket etc.

We kept a close eye on any mail that was delivered. 

Not an ideal or foolproof solution, but it worked for us. 

Even if it is set up to be used while the person has capacity, any actions taken must be with the person's full agreement and consent. You cannot unilaterally confiscate a card or change log in details for someone who has capacity around their own finances. That is a breach of the LPA and puts you in safeguarding territory. And as above, they can retract that consent at any point while they still have the capacity to do so. 

I know that, and perhaps should have added that it was all done with his knowledge & consent. 

km1500

Well, for me, as I said, for his bank account I would change the phone number to mine and if the account uses the app to authenticate then put the app on my phone as well - not his. He will still be able to log on to his bank if you 'trust' the browser but not add new payees.

You then get a credit card from a different bank and use his phone number on that so he can spend online