Ageing father - options to keep his account(s) secure

Ballard

My parents are in their mid 80s and my father was close to being scammed recently. ‘Microsoft’ spoke to him over several days and eventually got him to download software onto his laptop.

My mother is a bit more savvy and was begging him to hang up but it took a long time for him to do so. My brother was able to go over and delete the software and the scammers didn’t get anything.

I suspect that he will be targeted again and despite promising to listen to my mother next time, we can’t be sure.

My brothers and I have lasting power of attorney for finance and health. Any suggestions as to what we should consider would be appreciated. My thoughts are to stop his ability to add new payees and restricting his online/phone card payments in some way. Is this generally possible? I’m not sure who he banks with but he has a credit card and a current account.

I’m hoping for a solution where he retains financial freedom rather than having one of us manage his finance.

Thanks. 

kimwp

Not an expert, but I think you'd have to have his permission to do things with his bank accounts, unless he is now longer capable of making decisions, at which point the lpa kicks in. I don't think making decisions you don't agree with counts.

kimwp

Age UK:

If you lack mental capacity for a decision, it means you're unable to do one or more of the following:

understand the information relating to the decision

weigh up that information

remember that information for long enough to make your decision

communicate your decision (whether verbally, using sign language, or by other means).

km1500

change the mobile number on his account so 2FA texts (needed to authorise adding new payees) come to eg you ? 

400ixl

km1500 said:

change the mobile number on his account so 2FA texts (needed to authorise adding new payees) come to eg you ? 

Most banking apps have thankfully stopped using insecure text based 2FA authorisation and its only going to move more and more to in app authorisation. You would also make time sensitive purchase approvals go down the same route.

One a PC, set it up so there is an admin account and a user account and make sure he is only logged into the user account. This will mean he needs an admin account to authorise installing software. Bit more difficult on a mobile but you can use profiles to do similar.

Biggest one would be not to keep much money in the main account used day to day. Keep DD's and savings in different accounts and don't have them under his control, but your mums, preferably on a separate device.

Ballard

kimwp said:

Not an expert, but I think you'd have to have his permission to do things with his bank accounts, unless he is now longer capable of making decisions, at which point the lpa kicks in. I don't think making decisions you don't agree with counts.

Sorry. I didn’t specify, but anything done would be with his agreement. My mentioning LPoA would have muddied the waters there, so my mistake. 

elsien

I don’t think there is a way to restrict card payments, even with his consent.
It’s not something that banks and cards do as a rule and if there was a mechanism to allow this anyone who has capacity to make a decision also has capacity to change it so all he would have to do is phone the bank to change the agreement,
And with regards to the above post, as you’ve already acknowledged, taking his money away from him while he has capacity isn’t an option. 
What makes you think he would do it again having been caught out once because that makes most people more careful?
What I do with my mother is keep an eye on the latest scams doing the rounds and then talk them through with her, reinforcing anything she’s not sure about call me first. I’m signed up to a local Police fraud update which I also pass on to her.

kimwp

Ballard said:

kimwp said:

Not an expert, but I think you'd have to have his permission to do things with his bank accounts, unless he is now longer capable of making decisions, at which point the lpa kicks in. I don't think making decisions you don't agree with counts.

Sorry. I didn’t specify, but anything done would be with his agreement. My mentioning LPoA would have muddied the waters there, so my mistake. 

Ah lovely. Scams are such a worry, and I think older people are more vulnerable to them (even when capable of making decisions), I hope you manage to protect your Dad.

Ballard

I didn’t want to go into too much detail as it’s personal, but realistically I should have given more to go on. He did get scammed out of a couple of hundred about three years ago so it’s not the first time. He has also got lost a couple of times whilst driving recently, which isn’t something that he’s done before. 

His driving is another concern that we will need to tackle, but that’s not something that I need advice from on the forum. 

400ixl

Ballard said:

His driving is another concern that we will need to tackle, but that’s not something that I need advice from on the forum. 

You (he) needs to be speaking to his GP not asking a forum.

PRAISETHESUN

While he has capacity, I'm not sure there's any meaningful way to limit his ability to transact. You can set daily transaction limits for transfers and debit card spending for most banks, but these can also be changed by the account holder. There's nothing really stopping a scammer coaching him through increasing his limits first before then coaching him through a scam transfer. Ideally the fact that someone is asking his limits to be increased would be a red flag for him, but I suspect it probably won't. 

It's a touch situation. My grandmother went through dementia before she passed several years back and it was tough trying to help her maintain her independence when it was fairly clear she couldn't, particularly as she resisted attempts to "help" her because she was adamant she was still competent to make decisions. She had a POA in place thankfully, and eventually she agreed with what her doctors were saying, but it still didn't make life easy for anyone involved.