Fire safety query (converted house into 2 flats)

snowqueen555

Hi, is someone able to help. I've put in an offer on a top floor flat, it is a house converted into two flats, each with a share of the freehold.

After I submitted an offer the estate agent sent me a fire safety report the top flat ordered and that were recommended to be done, things like a new front door, replacing the consumer unit from wood to a fire retardant one, putting up a fire exit sign, installing emergency lighting int he hallway. It also talked about how the bottom floor should be liable for x y z and what the top floor would be liable.

In all honesty a share of the freehold sounds lovely in theory, but sounds like there is an issue currently between the two flats paying for things. I can only imagine how much of a headache it might be if the roof needed fixing or something.

Is the flat required to be "up to fire regs standard" for just two flats I've never encountered this before despite having bid on many house conversions before. Why has the seller decided to to this report now?

The only communal area is the small hallway at the front door.

Emmia

snowqueen555 said:

Hi, is someone able to help. I've put in an offer on a top floor flat, it is a house converted into two flats, each with a share of the freehold.

After I submitted an offer the estate agent sent me a fire safety report the top flat ordered and that were recommended to be done, things like a new front door, replacing the consumer unit from wood to a fire retardant one, putting up a fire exit sign, installing emergency lighting int he hallway. It also talked about how the bottom floor should be liable for x y z and what the top floor would be liable.

In all honesty a share of the freehold sounds lovely in theory, but sounds like there is an issue currently between the two flats paying for things. I can only imagine how much of a headache it might be if the roof needed fixing or something.

Is the flat required to be "up to fire regs standard" for just two flats I've never encountered this before despite having bid on many house conversions before. Why has the seller decided to to this report now?

The only communal area is the small hallway at the front door.

Regulations on fire doors for flats  have changed in the last couple of years following Grenfell.

I'm concerned though that the door hasn't already been changed by the seller. We're getting ours done, because of the regs changes and typical costs seem to be around £2k to supply and install the door (in London).

As it's not done, I'd factor that into your offer. I can't see there would be any real barrier to the seller just doing this on a shared freehold (we've had to go through the management company, which has added cost, and delay) which raises a question as to "why not?"

It also sounds like there's no management company (which for two flats isn't surprising) so there is a risk that you'll find it difficult to get the other freeholder to stump up for repairs to the roof (which will affect you well before them) and other issues like that.

EssexHebridean

Some of this sounds like a bit of an overreaction to the Building Safety Act 2022 - not surprising as the way it has been introduced is fa from ideal.  Immediately after Grenfell our freeholder went into a knee jerk reaction and started demanding all sorts of things of leaseholders - none of which were acceptable under our leases and not all of  which were in reality in any way relevant in our building in any event. Our building was not in any event large enough to be affected by the “best practise” advisories which were issued at the time. No common sense was applied, and they lied to the leaseholders too - about requirements for gas and electrical safety certification - causing even more confusion. All very frustrating! 

OP - have you already instructed a solicitor on this purchase? If so your best bet is to ask them to advise (if they are able to - they may not as in legal terms this is still a very new piece of legislation and a lot of firms are simply opting not to act on affected properties) on whether in fact the report was required, and whether the actions demanded within it are required either. 

snowqueen555

Emmia said:

Regulations on fire doors for flats  have changed in the last couple of years following Grenfell.

I'm concerned though that the door hasn't already been changed by the seller. We're getting ours done, because of the regs changes and typical costs seem to be around £2k to supply and install the door (in London).

As it's not done, I'd factor that into your offer. I can't see there would be any real barrier to the seller just doing this on a shared freehold (we've had to go through the management company, which has added cost, and delay) which raises a question as to "why not?"

It also sounds like there's no management company (which for two flats isn't surprising) so there is a risk that you'll find it difficult to get the other freeholder to stump up for repairs to the roof (which will affect you well before them) and other issues like that.

I think that is the problem, it is implied the bottom floor are responsible for the ground floor things and the top floor for the roof etc. Sounds like some discord there.EssexHebridean said:

Some of this sounds like a bit of an overreaction to the Building Safety Act 2022 - not surprising as the way it has been introduced is fa from ideal.  Immediately after Grenfell our freeholder went into a knee jerk reaction and started demanding all sorts of things of leaseholders - none of which were acceptable under our leases and not all of  which were in reality in any way relevant in our building in any event. Our building was not in any event large enough to be affected by the “best practise” advisories which were issued at the time. No common sense was applied, and they lied to the leaseholders too - about requirements for gas and electrical safety certification - causing even more confusion. All very frustrating! 

OP - have you already instructed a solicitor on this purchase? If so your best bet is to ask them to advise (if they are able to - they may not as in legal terms this is still a very new piece of legislation and a lot of firms are simply opting not to act on affected properties) on whether in fact the report was required, and whether the actions demanded within it are required either. 

I haven't instructed a solicitor yet just made an offer, and then they sent me this information. It is also worth bearing in mind a loft conversion was done on the property and it can't be classed as a bedroom, so there was the additional risk or buying this place and getting the loft checked for safety etc, another headcache.

anselld

snowqueen555 said:

I think that is the problem, it is implied the bottom floor are responsible for the ground floor things and the top floor for the roof etc. Sounds like some discord there.EssexHebridean said:

Even though there it is a shared freehold there will still be Leases and the Leases will define who is responsible for what.   It would be more normal for communal aspects to be shared 50:50 regardless of if they are up or down, however you would need to read the Lease to be sure and it would be mistaken to accept the assumptions of a fire risk assessor.  You can request a copy of the lease from the Agent or get it from Land Registry for a small fee.

Albermarle

replacing the consumer unit from wood to a fire retardant one,

A wooden consumer unit would be a bit of a novelty.
Perhaps they mean the consumer unit is fixed to a wooden board?
I think the current regulations for new consumer units is that they are made from metal, although most existing ones are plastic. 

It is also worth bearing in mind a loft conversion was done on the property and it can't be classed as a bedroom, so there was the additional risk or buying this place and getting the loft checked for safety etc, another headcache.

If it has just been boarded out and maybe a window put in, but with not a proper staircase, then it is still a useful space, but will never be  a habitable one. So probably no need to get it checked out.
On the other hand if it has been done properly ( on the surface at least), but with no building regs sign off, then you may wish to get it checked if you want to use it as a bedroom/habitable space, or claim that when you sell it.

RAS

I think you can apply to the Land Registry for a copy of the lease for £7, which is peanuts. Takes a week- 10 days according to other posters.