Missing deliveries from US retailer - UK consumer rights..?

ernie-money

A little while back I had a parcel from Crocs go missing, I contacted them and then realised (from the language used) that their customer service centre must be in the US. They were very disinterested and just told me that it's not their responsibility to make sure the parcel reaches me, but I would have to take it up with the courier. Needless to say I wasn't impressed, but I managed to collar the delivery driver and it turned out he hadn't left me a card, but the parcel was left a few doors down, so all good.

I've now ordered someting from Timberland which has supposedly been delivered but not received, so I contacted them. Their response was very similar, they said it's nothing to do with them and if the parcel has been stolen, I should contact the police. I don't even think the parcel has been stolen, as we've had gale force winds and the parcel could just as likely have blown away if it was left outside, but either way, I don't see what good contacting the police would do... It sounds like they are also based in the US and I'm just wondering if different laws apply when you order from outside the UK, so that it's basically just "tough" if you order something and don't receive it - other than claiming from your credit card company..?

Thanks in advance! 😊

user1977

Depends on the retailer and their terms - if you bought from timberland.co.uk then you are dealing with a UK company so UK consumer laws apply: https://www.timberland.co.uk/en-gb/customer-care/term-and-conditions-of-sales#company-list

Not really relevant where their customer service centre is based.

Grumpy_chap

ernie-money said:

I've now ordered someting from Timberland which has supposedly been delivered but not received, so I contacted them. Their response was very similar, they said it's nothing to do with them and if the parcel has been stolen, I should contact the police. I don't even think the parcel has been stolen, as we've had gale force winds and the parcel could just as likely have blown away if it was left outside, but either way, I don't see what good contacting the police would do... It sounds like they are also based in the US and I'm just wondering if different laws apply when you order from outside the UK, so that it's basically just "tough" if you order something and don't receive it - other than claiming from your credit card company..?

Thanks in advance! 😊

Did you order from timberland.co.uk?
If so, you ordered from a UK company and UK consumer rights apply.
It is irrelevant where the call centre is based.

If the item was not received, you deal with the retailer as you have no contract with the courier.
You say the item was "supposedly been delivered".  Has any evidence of that delivery been provided to you?

If the item was delivered but now missing, the police report is not an uncommon request.  It can be used as a tool by retailers to filter out dishonest claims for non-delivery.  It may also be something that allows the retailer / courier to recover from their insurer?

born_again

ernie-money said:

A little while back I had a parcel from Crocs go missing, I contacted them and then realised (from the language used) that their customer service centre must be in the US. They were very disinterested and just told me that it's not their responsibility to make sure the parcel reaches me, but I would have to take it up with the courier. Needless to say I wasn't impressed, but I managed to collar the delivery driver and it turned out he hadn't left me a card, but the parcel was left a few doors down, so all good.

I've now ordered someting from Timberland which has supposedly been delivered but not received, so I contacted them. Their response was very similar, they said it's nothing to do with them and if the parcel has been stolen, I should contact the police. I don't even think the parcel has been stolen, as we've had gale force winds and the parcel could just as likely have blown away if it was left outside, but either way, I don't see what good contacting the police would do... It sounds like they are also based in the US and I'm just wondering if different laws apply when you order from outside the UK, so that it's basically just "tough" if you order something and don't receive it - other than claiming from your credit card company..?

Thanks in advance! 😊

So where did you order the crocs from?

A link to site used would be great, same with Timberland one. As many less than genuine sites out there.

twopenny

I admit to not knowing the ins and outs because I don't know which site you used.

Also a surprising number of sucessful British companies have been taken over by traders abroad.

But I used to be employed by a business that sent goods out and by courier and any problems was up to me to sort out. I don't think anyone questioned that the business had the contract with the courier so it was up to us to sort them out.

We also had a contract with the customer to supply the goods they paid for so it was up to us and not the customer to see our service worked.

Sounds like this is the usual try on - first deny all responsibility in the hope the customer will go away. That can happen a couple of times and once you don't go away they try something else. That is really bad business practise but the virtual distance between customer and business means they can now get away with it.

If you were able to go into the business and say - that thing I paid for didn't arrive. Where is it and I want the product or a refund?

Face to face you would be able to talk reason. Now it's annonymous it's tougher on the customer but the same rules apply.

I had enough of this nonsense a long time ago and now check where a business is based, go for UK with an address that I can walk into and deal with if necessary - or send a recorded post letter to.

Timberland is US company

Crocs is a US company

voluted

twopenny said:

Sounds like this is the usual try on - first deny all responsibility in the hope the customer will go away. That can happen a couple of times and once you don't go away they try something else. That is really bad business practise but the virtual distance between customer and business means they can now get away with it.

It's not and it worked and still works with face-to-face sales.

There isn't really a way to get it to not work as the vast majority of transactions go through without a hiccup so even if you refuse to buy from X, Y is probably just as bad but you're statistically unlikely to run into the same problem with them, even though they'll handle it the same way.

I suppose not buying on price or convenience might work, but good luck getting everyone on board with that.

ernie-money

user1977 said:

Depends on the retailer and their terms - if you bought from timberland.co.uk then you are dealing with a UK company so UK consumer laws apply: https://www.timberland.co.uk/en-gb/customer-care/term-and-conditions-of-sales#company-list

Not really relevant where their customer service centre is based.

That's interesting, thank you! Yes, ordered from .co.uk sites on both occasions and reading their terms, they refer to EU consumer legislation, so it sounds like their agent just couldn't be bothered, or didn't know better. It's just seemed a strange coincidence that both customer service agents used American phrases and responded in a way that I have never had from a UK based company. I'm guessing what they referred to, is this section of their terms:4rd step: we confirm that Products have been shipped - contract concluded!

But it clearly states in theor terms of delivery that risk and title only passes to buyer on acceptance of goods, so I guess I'll have to send them a strongly worded email if their courier investigations do not bear fruition...

ernie-money

Grumpy_chap said:

ernie-money said:

I've now ordered someting from Timberland which has supposedly been delivered but not received, so I contacted them. Their response was very similar, they said it's nothing to do with them and if the parcel has been stolen, I should contact the police. I don't even think the parcel has been stolen, as we've had gale force winds and the parcel could just as likely have blown away if it was left outside, but either way, I don't see what good contacting the police would do... It sounds like they are also based in the US and I'm just wondering if different laws apply when you order from outside the UK, so that it's basically just "tough" if you order something and don't receive it - other than claiming from your credit card company..?

Thanks in advance! 😊

Did you order from timberland.co.uk?
If so, you ordered from a UK company and UK consumer rights apply.
It is irrelevant where the call centre is based.

If the item was not received, you deal with the retailer as you have no contract with the courier.
You say the item was "supposedly been delivered".  Has any evidence of that delivery been provided to you?

If the item was delivered but now missing, the police report is not an uncommon request.  It can be used as a tool by retailers to filter out dishonest claims for non-delivery.  It may also be something that allows the retailer / courier to recover from their insurer?

Yes, co.uk site - no evidence as yet, other than an email from the retailer saying that it's been delivered, so I'm waiting to hear back from them. They didn't suggest that they needed police report, but just said "if it's been stolen, go to the police", but reporting it as part of their replacement process makes more sense. I just wasn't even sure what to report it as - a parcel left unattended or delivered to the wrong place..? as I really don't knoiw what's happened to it 🤔

born_again

ernie-money said:

Grumpy_chap said:

ernie-money said:

I've now ordered someting from Timberland which has supposedly been delivered but not received, so I contacted them. Their response was very similar, they said it's nothing to do with them and if the parcel has been stolen, I should contact the police. I don't even think the parcel has been stolen, as we've had gale force winds and the parcel could just as likely have blown away if it was left outside, but either way, I don't see what good contacting the police would do... It sounds like they are also based in the US and I'm just wondering if different laws apply when you order from outside the UK, so that it's basically just "tough" if you order something and don't receive it - other than claiming from your credit card company..?

Thanks in advance! 😊

Did you order from timberland.co.uk?
If so, you ordered from a UK company and UK consumer rights apply.
It is irrelevant where the call centre is based.

If the item was not received, you deal with the retailer as you have no contract with the courier.
You say the item was "supposedly been delivered".  Has any evidence of that delivery been provided to you?

If the item was delivered but now missing, the police report is not an uncommon request.  It can be used as a tool by retailers to filter out dishonest claims for non-delivery.  It may also be something that allows the retailer / courier to recover from their insurer?

Yes, co.uk site - no evidence as yet, other than an email from the retailer saying that it's been delivered, so I'm waiting to hear back from them. They didn't suggest that they needed police report, but just said "if it's been stolen, go to the police", but reporting it as part of their replacement process makes more sense. I just wasn't even sure what to report it as - a parcel left unattended or delivered to the wrong place..? as I really don't knoiw what's happened to it 🤔

.co.uk does not always mean UK site, or company.

A link from order confirmation of history would help to confirm genuine sites.

DullGreyGuy

twopenny said:

Also a surprising number of sucessful British companies have been taken over by traders abroad.

Not sure the relevance for two companies founded in the US?

twopenny said:
I had enough of this nonsense a long time ago and now check where a business is based, go for UK with an address that I can walk into and deal with if necessary - or send a recorded post letter to.

Well the Timberland website and shops in the UK are VF Northern Europe Services ltd incorporated in Scotland with physical stores you can walk into. 


Crocs too have UK stores and a UK based company that operates the stores. Their website however seems to operate from the Netherlands. 

Working out where someone is based isn't always 100% straight forward. Plenty of far east operators of verging on scam websites will list a UK based company and UK based address but it's just a forwarding address. With multinational companies like the forementioned they operate in many different countries and many will have a UK entity even if they are founded overseas. 

Unfortunately being UK based with a UK address doesn't automatically mean a sole trader knows all the rules and legislation they should follow, some will also use forwarding address services, some are just buying cheap tat from overseas and rebranding it to themselves to sell as a "designed in the UK" product etc. 

ernie-money

DullGreyGuy said:

twopenny said:

Also a surprising number of sucessful British companies have been taken over by traders abroad.

Not sure the relevance for two companies founded in the US?

twopenny said:
I had enough of this nonsense a long time ago and now check where a business is based, go for UK with an address that I can walk into and deal with if necessary - or send a recorded post letter to.

Well the Timberland website and shops in the UK are VF Northern Europe Services ltd incorporated in Scotland with physical stores you can walk into. 


Crocs too have UK stores and a UK based company that operates the stores. Their website however seems to operate from the Netherlands. 

Working out where someone is based isn't always 100% straight forward. Plenty of far east operators of verging on scam websites will list a UK based company and UK based address but it's just a forwarding address. With multinational companies like the forementioned they operate in many different countries and many will have a UK entity even if they are founded overseas. 

Unfortunately being UK based with a UK address doesn't automatically mean a sole trader knows all the rules and legislation they should follow, some will also use forwarding address services, some are just buying cheap tat from overseas and rebranding it to themselves to sell as a "designed in the UK" product etc. 

This is enlightening! I always assumed that if a retailer is UK based (ie a UK address on the website) UK consumer laws would apply, but I guess I'll be more cautious in future and check T's & C's to make sure. I never thought ordering a pair of boots would be such a minefield!